Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Potential new HMO on my road - advice appreciated
My neighbours property is undergoing major refurbishment works. This property is a rental property and recently the tenants moved out and it appears the house is being turned into self contained units for an HMO.
A van with the the company name Birch tree housing was parked outside. I believe the property is being prepared to be turned into a hostel for ex offenders and vulnerable adults for this housing company. I cannot see a planning application on the Haringey website for this work and conversion to HMO. I've also spoken to the property owner who seemed to know nothing about it ( nor the broken front window ) and the property has a local estate agency as managing agent. Also spoke to Birch tree who were not especially forthcoming but did confirm my suspicions stated above.
I'm intending to speak to Haringey planning dept as I think permission required for HMO. Does anyone know the current number of HMOs on the ladder? The search function on Council website is down. I will FOI it but that takes a while.
Any other advice appreciated! Thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nico on
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My understanding is that 'exempt accommodation' of this kind can be pushed through without a HMO licence as it is being used as supported accomodation provided by a company signed up to the Register of Social Housing providers. The housing may be leased from the owner by Birch Tree, hence the estate agency's involvement. There is a lot of money to be made by landlords with exempt accommodation as they are not subject to HB caps in the way conventional PRS housing is, hence their name and the move towards them.
Without wanting to spoil your Sunday too much, it is worth looking into what is going on in Birmingham with exempt properties to see where things can end up. It is a part of the housing sector crying out for regulation and enforcement, but right now there is little, certainly not enough, and there are a lot of bad eggs taking advantage of the laxity of the situation to make a lot of money while providing little to no on-the-ground support to tenants. From what I can find online, Birch Tree on the face of it look like a company with good intentions, but others in the area might take their own view from experience.
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Permalink Reply by Saima on
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Thanks Nico. I did wonder if it might be exempt from HMO licensing rules. I couldn't find any info on this on Haringey's website but have contacted them directly to ask.You certainly haven't spoiled my Sunday. Next door have already done that by continuing the works on the property on a Sunday. At least they waited until 9am...
My husband pointed out that the previous tenants could have been Birch Tree housing referrals as it went from a couple of families n living together to single men. Plus a Ring Doorbell appeared on the property. We just didn't think to question it until now
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Hi Saima.
From what you say it seems as though the current use is as a dwelling house - which is C3 (see below). You need to establish what the intended new use will be. If the intended use changes from the current one (say from C3 to C2) permission would be needed but from what you say it sounds as if the new use may still be within the C3 definition. If Birch Tree want to make this explicit they can apply for a certificate of lawfulness of proposed use to avoid any future disputes about the property.
If that is the case I think it’s entirely right that you have a conversation with Birch Tree to find out more about what they intend for the property, especially what kind of support the new residents will be receiving from them - not just for your own peace of mind but also to make sure arrangements create a decent and supportive environment for the occupants.
- C1 Hotels - Hotels, boarding and guest houses where no significant element of care is provided (excludes hostels)
- C2 Residential institutions - Residential care homes, hospitals, nursing homes, boarding schools, residential colleges and training centres
- C2A Secure Residential Institution - Use for a provision of secure residential accommodation, including use as a prison, young offenders institution, detention centre, secure training centre, custody centre, short term holding centre, secure hospital, secure local authority accommodation or use as a military barracks
- C3 Dwellinghouses - This class is formed of three parts
- C3(a) covers use by a single person or a family (a couple whether married or not, a person related to one another with members of the family of one of the couple to be treated as members of the family of the other), an employer and certain domestic employees (such as an au pair, nanny, nurse, governess, servant, chauffeur, gardener, secretary and personal assistant), a carer and the person receiving the care and a foster parent and foster child
- C3(b) covers up to six people living together as a single household and receiving care e.g. supported housing schemes such as those for people with learning disabilities or mental health problems
- C3(c) allows for groups of people (up to six) living together as a single household. This allows for those groupings that do not fall within the C4 HMO definition, but which fell within the previous C3 use class, to be provided for i.e. a small religious community may fall into this section as could a homeowner who is living with a lodger
- C4 Houses in multiple occupation - Small shared houses occupied by between three and six unrelated individuals, as their only or main residence, who share basic amenities such as a kitchen or bathroom.
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I have a C4 house several doors down.
Was a family home, now has many different people using property
Users use key pad for entry
Aware the owners have several other properties in the area
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Hi Bob. Do you know if they needed to get planning permission? Thanks Saima
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Thank you Michael, I appreciate detailed reply. A really good point on finding out what support they receive. The previous condition of the property when it had families living in it was poor with the tenants left with a leaking ceiling from a roof leak for an extended period of time and it caused damp issues. The most recent tenants (that I only now realise must have been placed by Birch Tree )were single men and overall there were no issues but one day there was a boarded up broken window and the property was left empty. I've no idea what works they need to do to it if it was already let by my Birch Tree. Perhaps making it more secure and providing individual bathroom/kitchen facilities.
The property owner is visiting tomorrow and meeting Birch Tree. He said he will speak to me after. Let's see.
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Permalink Reply by Stav Aristides on
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Ex offenders and vulnerable adults. You're bound to encounter negative issues and even if you don't having a facility like it in proximity to your home will reduce its value due to the perceptions of potential buyers if you ever want to move. Now I'm all for rehabilitation and supporting vulnerable people but an inner city, crowded residential street with young families is not the right place for this kind of thing. Over to you Michael, Maggie Gordon T etc
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Permalink Reply by kotkas on
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Totally agreed. It's extraordinarily inappropriate without some measure of care or standards put in place.
There is one such property on our street and the inhabitants (who appear pretty harmless) just stand in front of the property and smoke joints the size of a Flake all day long. Surely that can't be good for individuals with disabilities?
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Interesting. I think birch are converting a property on my street too.
In terms of HMO planning. Isn't there a difference between gaining planning permission to convert to a HMO and being exempt from ongoing licensing arrangements? I think the former is pretty much banned according to the planning policy if a family home at present.
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Actually they don't seem to be a registered social landlord either from what I can see. Nothing on the register.
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