Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

For HoLiners who would like to sign and support this Petition.

It asks the Council to support the call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and

to divest its pension fund from companies complicit in the illegal occupation of Palestine and the ongoing military onslaught in Gaza. Thanks. 

https://www.change.org/p/haringey-council-stop-supporting-genocide-...

Note: this Petition is for people who live, work or study in Haringey.

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Just a couple of friendly observations:

1. Foreign policy is outside the remit of Haringey Council (fortunately). Any such statement would simply be irrelevant.

2. The council does not have its own pension scheme. Council employees belong to the Local Government Pension Scheme. 

Absolutely correct on both points but Haringey council have traditionally been adept at irrelevancy and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do, or have made a statement regarding the current situation in Gaza. And I'll put money that it won't be sympathetic to both sides of the conflict. Correct the local govt pension scheme is not in the hands of Haringey council thank God. An easily found fact that the original poster should have checked before writing the post. 

Thanks for that.

The Council has in the past commented on Foreign Affairs. The Petition with notes gives more details.

There is nothing reprehensible for a public body to take a moral position on an issue of such gravity. 

The Council does not need to belong to the Local Government Pension Scheme - it is a choice. Again there is more information in the Notes in the Petition. 

It may have done so in the past but it shouldn't. Foreign policy is important, highly nuanced and developed after careful consideration of the UK's dynamic security and economic interests. It is complex and requires specialist knowledge. Therefore, it is the preserve of the national government and informed by experts in the civil service, armed forces and the security services.

Local councils making statements on subjects about which they have no remit or expertise just sends mixed messages to our allies and enemies abroad. They should stick to what they're elected to do. And in Haringey's case they can start with fixing the dangerous potholes on Effingham Rd.

Each council has a pension fund and makes its own decisions on how to invest it.

Query: How is the occupation of "Palestine" "illegal"? 

You see, I have the Old Testament (Tanakh) sitting on my desk. The "illegal occupiers of Palestine" who also happen to be the subject of that Bible lived in the place you claim they are "illegal occupiers" of for thousands of years. 

How does that work?

At the same time, I don't see any mention of "Palestinians" at all in that book (not to be confused with Philistines who actually did live in Gaza (see e.g., the story of Samson in Judges)). 

The Arabs who lived in Gaza and Judea and Samaria (the actual name of the "West Bank") only started to become known as "Palestinians" in the 1960s.   Before that, the term "Palestinian" was associated with the people you assert to be "occupiers" now.  

So I'm looking for an explanation that accounts for the fact that people who have lived in the area for thousands of years are now its "occupiers" whereas Arabs who came along in large part relatively recently because of are suddenly "indigenous people" in the region?   

The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians' homeland is actually Jordan. Unfortunately, like every other country in the region, Jordan doesn't want them particularly as they nearly overthrew the monarchy there. 

Well said. I agree that a ceasefire is now necessary be it a temporary one to allow humanitarian aid to get in but let's not forget the atrocities committed against Jews in Oct last year. Terrible, heinous crimes against all jews irrespective of their age or gender or political/philosophical beliefs as many of the brutally murdered were of liberal minded persons and their families. Murdered in cold blood simply because of their faith. Murderous genocidal racism is a very apt term for what happened on October 2023. 

Doodle, "ceasefire" is really a code word for surrender on the part of Israel.  All a "ceasefire" would result in is Hamas being able to reorganise and refortify.  Don't believe those number of (Arabs who call themselves) Palestinians' deaths reported by places like the BBC or the Biden administration as those numbers are propaganda directly from Hamas. Don't take my word for it; take uber Leftist media Reuter's word for it.  If all those Gazan deaths had really happened how come there is no aerial footage of mass graves? QED.

The real problem of course is that Hamas is directed by the Iranians and funded by money from Qatar and Iran so to truly eradicate it, Israel will need to take the matter beyond its borders. That will be very difficult, particularly as Obama and now O'Biden have enabled Iran to develop nuclear bombs (seven I believe) that are all but ready to deploy.  

Thank you, re Johnson, for drawing attention to this petition. I am sympathetic to several of the statements in it. But suggest that it may be more effective to focus on central urgent issues of a ceasefire, immediate release of hostages and urgent supply of food aid, clean water, and medical help.

I was heartened some weeks ago by the apparent shift in the views of David Lammy MP. Also pleased that he had gone to see for himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/09/labour-steps-up-cr... 
But also gloomy by the apparent failure by Lammy to persuade Keir Starmer to wake up to his responsibility as Leader to lead.

I do hope that Labour's national team are paying close attention to the reported comments to radio journalists of ordinary Rochdale residents. However negative people may feel about George Galloway, his notion that something significant has changed in British politics may be accurate.

"Murderous genocidal racism"? 
How many children must die before the cycle is broken?

How many children must die before the cycle is broken?

The only children to die intentionally were those who were murdered in cold blood on 7 October.  

Do you have any truly independent source of death statistics for children in Gaza and Judea and Samaria? (I didn't think so.)

Thank you Mark Michaels for reading and replying to my posts. Also - as it seems - for taking the trouble to look up the links I gave.

Here's another video link I recommend. From Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxtxKyHntA&t=18s

About Israel and Gaza. Some interesting comments a few days ago in a video interview with Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari.
https://youtu.be/BxBqNd-2_1A?si=olCbEF7dV4mKQeH3&t=229
People may have come across his books such as 'Sapiens'.

My link starts about 3 minutes into the video. You can pause and restart from the beginning if you prefer.

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