Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Petition - Changes to Haringey Waste Services
Hi Everyone [click here for the direct link to the petition].
The recent changes to Haringey's waste service have been well documented on this site in recent days. To recap, these include charging for garden waste collections, replacement bins (unless damaged by Veolia) and bulk collections. If you're familiar with the context, then please feel free to head straight to the petition here. NB... Per Michael's comment please scroll to the end of the next page on the petition site to register your signature.
If not, then read on... Charging for these services isn't uncommon in London - a number of boroughs now do so. However, the basis and evidence case that Haringey Council have used for this is questionable. Papers presented to council members for the Medium Term Financial Strategy (of which this forms part) shows the impact assessment of these changes on residents. There are seven potential negative outcomes on residents identified in Council decision papers as a result of implementing these changes. These are:
- An increase to fly tipping
- Increased use of Recycling and Reuse Centres (one of which I believe is earmarked for closure)
- A decrease in overall resident satisfaction
- An increase in side waste
- Discouraging recycling
- An increase in stolen bins
You can see the assessment here. No single positive outcome to residents was identified. For the council, a positive benefit of £775k in year one, dropping by 30% in year 2 to £525 suggesting the sustainability of these proposals is poor. In order to implement the changes, the Council will be investing at least £150k (IT systems, comms etc). Furthermore, no evidence was presented that a saving will be realised on the Veolia contract due to the reduction in scope.
Given the issues of fly tipping across the borough continue to gather pace, the council have had evidence provided to them that these changes will only serve to increase the problem. Personally, I don't find that acceptable. Things are pretty bad as it stands (example view of a local road today attached). If you agree, please do take a couple of moments to sign the petition by clicking on the link at the top.
Could I close with a small favour to ask? If anyone knows any means to spread this petition to other community sites, blogs etc in Haringey, please do so! Thank you for reading.
Tags for Forum Posts: waste collection charges
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alison on
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This was Veolia's response to my query.
I assume these will garden waste sacks similar to the ones currently supplied and collected - for which there be an annual charge of £55 for collection from October
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Okay thank you-didn't realise there was a cheaper option.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Without knowing the address I have to make a guess. But for what it's worth my guess is that Veolia regard this as waste on substantially private land. Onto which they may have no legal right to enter and remove someone's property.
If this is accurate, Peter S, then first, it would have been sensible to tell you. And second it's not the end of the matter, since a local council has powers to speak to the owners, and to take necessary action after serving notices about waste.
As a useful step can I please suggest finding out who the Veolia "Village Manager" is for the ward or wards this address is in. And to give that person a call and have a chat. You may find that they are already working on this particular problem.
I agree with the suggestion that one or more of your ward councillors may have time to take this up. That's worth a try as well.
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Glad to hear about the upcycling. Yep. It's one of the less objectionable ways people dispose of unwanted waste. "Dump It And They Will Come!"
And I thought I vaguely recognised this building. It's Topper House Vale Road N4 1TF.
A former factory perhaps? Or at least former commercial units. Largely turned into expensive "apartments"?
Anyway, on Google Streetview here the front looks like Bin City or worse - as you know.
From Google I'd guess that at least the land to the rear of the bollards was 'within the curtilage'. Though the cobbles and the different colouration of the pavement might raise a question of where the actual freehold boundary line falls; and whether or not the bins arrayed like men o' war are on the public highway or not.
Its location in Seven Sisters' ward may be helpful as this is currently the ward of Claire Kober the Dear Leader. And her Dear Sidekick Cllr Joe Goldberg.
Beyond that, the massed bins may suggest that not much deep thought may have gone into considering where the waste should go, when the planning application went in.Click on photo to enlarge.
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Peter S. (And other people with a similar problem). This may be helpful.
There are lots of small privately owned areas or strips of land adjacent to the public pavement and where rubbish sometimes gets left. Typical is a crossover to rarely used garages. Like this.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanstanton/14918034668/
I may be wrong, but my impression is that in the past, clearing these little nooks and corners has been sensibly negotiated between Haringey and Veolia (or their predecessors) with the aim of keeping our streets clean. With the back-up power of being able to serve a legal notice on the private owner to recoup the cost if they failed to act.
However, budgets are tight. So perhaps we now see people going into "defensive posture" and trying to get the other agency/person to pay?
Locally we had this particular problem.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131478208@N05/34590733464/
And eventually got this reply from Haringey.
From: Contract Development Manager, Haringey Council
Sent: 03 January 2017 11:38
To: [Unnamed local residents], local ward councillors.
Cc: Cabinet councillor
Subject: Abandoned mattress on --- roadI have been asked to respond to your enquiry about the reported abandoned mattress on private land in --- Road.
Contractually Veolia are not required to clear items from private land. The owner of the land should be identified and asked to remove the items. If this fails the council can arrange clearance and recharge the owner for the cost of removal and disposal.
There is a long process for dealing with items that are abandoned on private land ( weeks/months potentially) including land registry searches, serving notices and recharging in default of the notice served. It is a long process and more to do with large scale fly tipping often on farmland, green belt areas or sites with inadequate security etc.
With regard to the --- Road mattress - I saw the tweet and from the photograph it looked as if the mattress was partially on the public highway.
I used my discretion to have it removed from the public highway before someone fell over it or before it attracted more dumping.
I will use this as an opportunity for a ‘lessons learned’ conversation with Veolia.
Yours sincerely
Contract Development Manager, Haringey Council
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Ten flats. Hmm. And no obvious room in the front courtyard for 10 bins, let alone twenty.
Here's the problem with an aerial view. http://bit.ly/2unGzro
A classic to-get-there-I-wouldn't-start-from-here problem.
As you probably know from Google Maps historical view feature, before it was converted the gate went across the entire frontage of Topper House. So people couldn't dump into it.
I've run out of ideas. Except maybe that all the tenants and Haringey's Enforcement officer for that area should have a working contact number for the freeholder of Topper House; with a view to getting them responding quickly to any dumping. Maybe that arrangement is already in place?
Maybe the tenants/leaseholders have an association and are already tackling the problem? Not everything has to be top-down and depend on Haringey and Veolia. The people who live there have power as well.
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Permalink Reply by Katie K on
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I do think 2,200 is possible. Friends of the Earth's petition to ask Haringey to divest from investments in fossil fuels got that many and was debated and ended up with a change in council policy.
How about contacting the Tottenham Independent? http://www.thetottenhamindependent.co.uk/contactus/getintouch/ ? They also have 6 thousand twitter followers @ https://twitter.com/Tottenham_Indy
There are also lots of Haringey local area twitter accounts. If you're not on twitter I'm happy to tweet a few Peter.
Katie
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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It looks like the Tottenham Independent abandoned their Twitter account last November. I think it's been a long time since most of the local press carried much sway. People are excited about getting coverage in the local press, but the truth is readership is sadly very low these days. When figures were still publicised in about 2012/2013, HoL had a higher readership. With over 10,000 Twitter followers we also exceed their now defunct Twitter account, but we don't engage on it very much so it's not as influential as it used to/could be.
Here's our stats for the last 28 days. Back before 2010 I used to be bang up-to-date on interpreting social media stats, but I've lost interest and have no idea how this measures up these days.
The demise of the local press is very sad. It should be a critical part of local democracy.
HoL can help get the ball rolling on petitions like this, but its up to every interested individual to pester their friends and to get them to pester their friends.
I imagine that the FoE petition had an interested audience much further afield than Haringey. I'm sure that this fact together with their brand made the 2,200 an easy romp home.
>2,000 is possible with this petition but it will take time and persistence.
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It wasn't by any means an easy romp home, but I take your point. However, I think quite a few areas in Haringey haven't had their leaflets yet and therefore may not be aware. I haven't had any official notification yet (in West Green) so there may well be a whole new motivated audience once more people have the evidence in front of them.
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Peter
I was about to post that you needed 2200 signatures to trigger the debate when I saw you had already done it! You can also apply to ask public questions at the full council and bring a deputation to address the council, the Cabinet or any committee. The local democracy section of the council's website gives details of the process to follow if you do want to do any of those. I am hoping we can hold a meeting in September where all the relevant services are invited to respond to what people are saying and all the very relevant points people are making.
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
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As an older Haringey resident living on a small pension I'm not happy to be asked to pay £75 a year for a bin that I'd only half fill in 1 year!! A smaller bin at less cost would probably still not be filled.
There must be many people who feel the same way, small gardens, small incomes, what are we supposed to do?
Stuff our garden waste in a shopping trolley and take it on the bus to where ever this "site" is !!
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