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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

PCN issued when parked in a bay on an estate parking scheme - Advice please

We've just been issued a PCN labelled as being from Haringey (creditor is listed as Wing, who I thought weren't doing the EPS enforcement any more?). Our parking area is the Suffolk Road N15 estate which is residents-only estate parking scheme, for which we have a permit, clearly displayed.

The ticket claims we were not in a bay (not true). Has anyone else had experience of this or of challenging this? Additionally, the website for paying said fine looks dodgy as hell - www.iPayMyPCN.net

Thoughts/Advice much appreciated please! This is not the first time we've had to battle incorrect enforcement on the estate (or car was actually towed a few years ago, we proved our case and got both car and money back, but that was under a different operator).

Many thanks HoL people!

Tags for Forum Posts: EPS, PCN, parking, parking ticket

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I should add the PCN number on our ticket is not recognised by Haringey Councils PCN-challenge page, which makes me even more suspicious! https://haringey.tarantoportal.com/PCNs/

Looks like a total scam....

Scam. I'd ignore it 

I agree that it looks like a scam, but I'd suggest you write to Haringey parking. Firstly, if you publish their response, it will be a warning to others. Secondly, they might like to know about it, if they don't already. You can contact the head of parking at ann.cunningham@haringey.gov.uk.

Thanks Hugh, much appreciated - I've emailed Ann.

I know nothing about this particular location.

But ... our Council should be - and may be - working with the Police & the banks to track down criminals operating any scam parking schemes.

One problem with parking fines - whether scams or legitimate - is that people may be unwilling to give the time and effort needed to challenge them. Even when the motorist is in the right, dealing with the bureaucracy can be a pain. Local councils have more power than residents and parking fines are an oh-so-handy-way to backfill Government cuts.

With computers offering cheap ways to copy legal-looking documents of many kinds, in a sense Local councils offer a model for others wanting to take our money.
~

P.S. I'm glad to see that over in Barnet, Blogger Mr Mustard is still battling.
https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/

Did you ever get anywhere with this, as to whether it was legitimate or not?

I've recently had a fine for not displaying a permit even though the valid permit was right next to where they stuck the fine. I've been doing some digging on Wing Security because they rejected my appeal with what was clearly a cut and paste response and have apparently done the same thing to other residents, so I thought it looked dodgy af. They have a sole director who is a previous director of Wing Parking (which I think implies legitimacy) but are supposedly a dormant company and their most recent accounts lists an employee number of 0, which looks dodgy. Plus their postal address for appeals seems to be a house in Palmers Green that, whilst it houses several companies, doesn't seem to be related to Wing

No, we went through several written appeals which was incredibly slow and time consuming and eventually decided to give in an pay it as it was just taking too much of our time. I regret that now actually, as they appear to have subsequently become inactive - multiple dumped vehicles on our estate for months now without being ticketed and although I've emailed them (and the council) multiple times about it I've received no response. It's beyond frustrating.

Hi Emma,
If this is the scam which events suggest, I think you probably need a determined local councillor to make a stink and do some digging. And if people are actually being defrauded then to contact Internal Audit or perhaps the police.
In the meantime I suggest you contact Cllr Sarah Williams who I think has now got the Housing Management brief. (If I'm wrong Sarah will point you in the right direction.)

https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=11248

Just to clarify, I have now had it confirmed that Wing Security are providing estate parking enforcement to Haringey Council, so it's not a scam, despite them providing absolutely no evidence in support of their fine (ie I asked for photos, wondering if there was a large leaf obscuring the permit or some other such silliness, but they have just ignored this). There do seem to be an alarming number of stories of them ticketing people inappropriately though. One of my neighbours described one particular warden as 'he doesn't care whether you have a permit or not. He just throws out fines, left, right and centre' which is really reassuring!

My estate also has a number of apparently dumped vehicles, but most of them have been there since before I got a ticket, which seems a little odd. There are regularly cars parked who don't have permits, during enforcement hours, so I think someone has worked out when Wing do their fairly infrequent patrols and shared that on a forum somewhere. It's very annoying to be given a fine for, so far as I can tell, nothing, while others break the rules regularly and don't seem to have any consequences.

I've emailed my ward councillor and estate parking to try and establish if there is any appeals process available beyond Wing's internal one, given they're not registered with any of the parking bodies that support the independent appeals process. I don't think it's appropriate for the council to be using a supplier who isn't a member of the British Parking Association (or other equivalent body) who have a code of practice and independent appeals. I can afford to pay the fine if I have to, but you wouldn't think that from looking at my car, and some of my neighbours really wouldn't be able to

Cat A
I'm told that Cllr Sarah Williams has temporarily taken over a changed list of  cabinet  tasks which includes estate parking. Also that Sarah is probably the best person to kick-start an investigation of your complaint. And apparently of other estate residents also with parking related complaints.

I don't know which ward you live in and therefore whether you have two or three councillors. Nor if the councillor you wrote to has already initiated a "Member Inquiry". But whichever route you take then plainly copies of your correspondence with whoever is sending out parking tuckets needs to be supplied to your councillors or anyone else acting on your behalf.

The relationship between tenants and the Council as estate landlord should demonstrate mutual respect, fairness and openness. The description you've posted here does not suggest these features are in place.

Unexpectedly, I got a reply from estate parking stating the charge has been cancelled because my permit was valid. It only took me appealing, kicking off (politely) on several different social media platforms, emailing my ward councillor and emailing estate parking. I think they may have just wanted me to go away!

I'm probably not going to follow up on the parking situation overall (I still don't think they should be using Wing) right now because I'm also bugging them about a possible repair issue and I don't want to be so annoying that they just ignore me as a troublemaker, but if anyone else wants to take it up in future I'm happy to help.

Alan, I know what you mean about the relationship with the council. I sound spectacularly middle class, am a leaseholder and have family who work in other councils so can advise me on the best way to communicate to get what I want sorted, and I still struggle to get them to deal with simple things. I once had water running down my walls in December and they gave me an estimated repair date of February, while I freaked out about my electrics and my ceiling coming down (I threatened to sue them, they sorted it. It wasn't clear if that was a causal relation). Another notable instance was the time it took them over a year to fix a light in the communal corridor - they kept claiming it was fixed, I kept sending them photos showing otherwise and it just felt like they couldn't even be bothered to come up with a believable lie. Emine Ibrahim was in charge of housing then and sorted that very quickly after I sent her the email correspondence, but the light has since gone again and I just can't bring myself to start over.

Despite that, I do think they're better now it's the council directly rather than Homes for Haringey, but if I feel occasionally disrespected and fobbed off in my interactions with them I dread to think what they're like with someone less articulate and able to posh it up to make themselves seem more credible.

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