Outstanding for All - Haringey Education Commission Report - February 2013

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Permalink Reply by Seema Chandwani on February 18, 2013 at 16:58

Huh???????? *Scratches head*

What you on about Clive "Victor Meldrew" Carter?? You appear to be speaking tripe for the sake of it...!! Stop twisting what I am saying, most understood my points and you look a tad transparent 

It is awfully cute of you to try and distort what I said to and accuse me of the complete opposite of what I said and then steal what I had said to make it your own point.... I just feel to snog you! 

Seriously Clive, you know I love you.... I didnt say what you are making out I said, for once we agree (although your first comment on this thread sees you talk about Ally Pally). But to clarify my point, just in case you "geniunely" misunderstood

100s of reports of this nature are written every year, they all dont have launches, £2,200 spent on design or its own website! --- What was that about? 

Politics is not only what politicians do, analysing "the" politics is about management. Everyone knew this report would be bad, questions abt how to focus on solutions without the politial circus of opposition parties, media and critics hijacking the agenda needed to be considered. My point is, as it was done so openly, it has now become about Cllr Kobers leadership, about it all being "labours fault" and about Haringey just being rubbished in media. What about the kids? 

Therefore, I personally wouldnt have done it this way, if I wanted to protect young people being used as political bullets.

As for me stating that certain opposition parties are rubbing their hands with glee, I got that impression from Lynne Featherstones/Mark Packs and Cllr Williams tweets... Maybe someone should discuss their reaction with them and how it came across, rather than address me for observing and giving my opinion on how it came across to me.

Anyway, enough of all of this.... I said in my first statement I will not trivalise young peoples education and I appear to be doing so in this reply.

Hope the jumble sale went well :)

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on February 18, 2013 at 19:26

Seema you said earlier that it was a mistake to air [the council's] dirty laundry in public.

However I on the other hand, have always liked Alan's quoting approvingly of the US Supreme Court Judge, Sunlight is the best Disinfectant. Except it seems, when the sun shines on one's own dirty laundry.

It is true that I raise Ally Pally at the slightest provocation, but the point I was trying to make was this: it was the very depths of the Firoka fiasco that was a sine qua non precursor to progress.

The spectacular court judgement saw costs immediately awarded against the delinquent trustees who were, in the judge's words, "in large measure the authors of their own misfortune" due to their conduct. The 15 year old council policy of Flog-it was in utter, irredeemable tatters. The council was obliged to think deeper and harder.

Only by the full and final exposure of the Flog-it policy as futile and hopeless, could the mindset begin to change. Many things at AP have since improved although governance is still unreformed.

I see a parallel with this report on education. "Everyone knew this report would be bad". But is it bad enough (i.e. no punches pulled) to begin the sorely needed process of real change? I hope so.

Leader Clare Kober has grown in my estimation. It seems she has a Herculean job in gaining co-operation from some of her party colleagues, who seem hell-bent on obstruction.

By the way, the costs of this report do not come close to even a one thousandth of the cash spent on trying to flog our Charity's asset.

And you still need a good spanking!

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Permalink Reply by Seema Chandwani on February 18, 2013 at 20:09

Clive

There is a difference between airing your dirty laundry in public and exposing. You (as a member of the public) pushed to get "justice" for Ally Pally as you knew you were not being given the full facts. Likewise, as I am sure many know recently I have been screaming from the hilltops that Bruce Grove Youth Centre was closed when the council proclaimed (and also promoted) it was open 5 nights a week. This was a tangible quote of 'progress' in the feedback report to the Tottenham Community Riots Panel and I knew it was untrue.

After months of being made to look mad, even having people adding humour (which was funny) that I was visiting a different youth centre, finally an FOI proved that the youth centre had been closed. 

What both me and you did in our retrospective campaigns is expose the truth! But the truth was not the outcome, I assume you want Ally Pally to run properly like I want the youth service to run properly. The exposures we both made have not achieved that, it is what happens afterwards. 

In this case, I think the truth was already known, the OFSTED Reports/Education League Tables etc had already painted a picture. Therefore, what the investigation was/is what the council should do to improve.

I get paid to do such reports and investigations on how to improve Local Authority quality/delivery (not just on Education) and have always worked in the public services. Ive never seen many public reports that have been launched like a new product (with a launch events, their own websites etc) for looking at an improvement of a service. 

Im not saying it is wrong, Im just questioning a) the need and b) the distraction (as this debate is showing) it has caused. Has it aided the outcome needed? (Which I assume is to provide better education for children and young people?) or has the method somewhat overshadowed that outcome?

As for the actual report, I have my opinion on that for a different debate (obviously not this one, as its about other things, not kids - which is ironically my point).

Thank you very much for the offer of a "good spanking" - I would offer you the same, but at your age, I assume you find it hard to bend over!! Ha!! 

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on February 19, 2013 at 7:52

You (as a member of the public) pushed to get "justice" for Ally Pally as you knew you were not being given the full facts.

I was merely part of the campaign group SaveAllyPally. Hundreds formally objected to the sell-off. Thousands signed a petition against sale for property development. If you want to know more about its true aims, most of which were achieved, here is the website.

The High Court action was taken against the Charity Commission. If obsessive secrecy is "not being given the full facts", then yes the public - that's you too - were not given the full facts. They were also misled. The stakes were high. The Lease to Firoka was deliberately, willfully concealed from trust beneficiaries: that includes you, again.

Coming back to education in Haringey, I am delighted to report that Ally Pally's educational value is highlighted in the current giant bid for Heritage Lottery Funds. This gets back to the People's Palace's original aims from the middle of the industrial revolution.

There remain just a few dour, bitter characters in the background, but I am further delighted to report that this mega bid is backed by the council as a whole (cross-party support) and including council leader Clare Kober, who I am told has strongly helped the bid.

You have to give credit where credit is due. What an improvement on five years ago.

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