Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Not very Inspiring: local Labour Twitterers stick the tweetboot in to David Schmitz & Gorrie
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Isidoros, thanks for pointing out that William Hoyle was a Conservative candidate. (Will, you should add a declaration to that effect on your page and should make reference to it when you're making postings on a political thread).
You've made quite a few assumptions in what you describe as you your "outburst", Isidoros. I do understand that it's been a difficult election for you. However, that doesn't remove from you the obligation to temper you comments with a little reason and balance.
Let's go through what you've said piece by piece:
1. Socio-demographics of Harringay and associated voting patterns
Whilst it's true that Harringay has a socio-demographic profile which shares much with the west, it is more mixed than, say Muswell Hill. However the voting patterns are by no means along now outmoded class lines where the middle class never voted Labour. Surely the narrow margins in the results show that.
Neither should you assume that the majority of people who use this site are not Labour voters. I can assure you, you'd be sorely mistaken.
You're making wild unfounded assumptions based on absolutely no evidence in this part of your outburst.
2. Harringay Online & Local Elections
What we sought to do with our election coverage was quite simple.
In the past, and still in most areas, the only information that exists in any public domain about local elections, the parties, their policies and the candidates is put out by the parties themselves. I challenge you to defend those as a decent basis for developing a good understanding of any of those elements.
So what we have at large is ignorance about who we vote for locally and what the y intend to do. We sought to fill that void with knowledge. Knowledge of who the candidates are, what their record is and what the parties say are their policies. I believe that the individual is paramount to being a successful councillor, not the party. So a big part of my purpose has been to provide people with insight on who will best serve the community. At a neighbourhood level, party is only a part of that.
Nonetheless, parties exist, so I have tried to ensure that the site's coverage has been played with a completely straight bat. I think we pretty much succeeded. I'm very proud of our election coverage. It has given local people for the first time an unprecedented access to the election process, the personalities and the policies in as unbiased a way as we've been able to. Your sweeping dismissal of all the hard work put in to this is unfortunate and ungrounded.
You call Liz's blogs "hatchet jobs". I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion. None are opinion pieces; none are selective in their content as far as I'm aware. Liz searched the web for any available information and published it. Is that wrong? The piece I imagine you objected to about Gina was sourced from government report and the Independent newspaper. I thought long and hard about whether to censor it. Ultimately I could find no defence for doing so.
If you have reason to believe that Liz's blogs are biased by dint of style, presentation or what was put in or left out, I would like you to point that out to me so they can be corrected. All facts she used are matters of public record as far as I'm aware.
3. The political parties and Harringay Online during the elections
I have a full record of all communications between Harringay Online and the political parties in the run-up to the election and afterwards and am prepared to make that a matter of public record if you would like Isidoros.
In your post you mention that "the LibDems locally and nationally are entitled to feel dejected". Taking the borough as a whole, I'd agree and I think, whether they admit it or not, they probably do to. Strange then that there has been so much energy expended by the successful Labour party in to attacking a community website. As I'm sure you're aware, your posting here is just one offensive "outburst" in the onslaught.
Sad that you and other people can find the time to criticise a community enterprise yet fail to use any energy to support what we do throughout the rest of the year.
Isidoros I am very happy to throw open all content on the site and my communications with all political parties to independent evaluation and scrutiny.
However, what I'd rather do is to accept that political contests generate high feelings, to agree that it's time to put that behind us and work together for the benefit of the borough.
If you, Gina and any of your colleagues would like to meet for an off-the-record conversation, I would be happy to do so. Time to focus on the good of the neighbourhood, the success of the borough rather than getting mired in reprisal for imagined injustices.
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Will, the best thing to do is just use common sense. If you're contributing to a post about a lost cat, no declaration is needed. If you're posting on a highly political thread about an election in which you've been a candidate, yes you should make it clear who you are. That's the same for every candidate from every political party.
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Permalink Reply by E. F. Salzman on
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Hugh,
I'm glad this site has mixed input; I don't think stating allegiances is a bad thing for anyone. Many are NOT voting on party political lines, which is exactly the change now. I feel under conservative umbrella hides a multitude of unacceptable opinions and ideology, more than with other parties. I'm a writer. I think arts and culture important; not just hobbies or entertainment but as relevant to society as business. We mostly survive as underpaid teachers, with little protection or support while putting in a huge amount to society and to publish many books makes little difference to paltry income we survive on.
My political views are not just based on this or my personal situation but anyway the conservatives have never spoken for culture, except perhaps as some hobbyist thing which one is welcome to practise in free time: if you can afford it.
Regardless, it is bewildering to to hear now alienating antagonism from the "other side" towards those of us who have been supporters in the past, just at moment I was wondering whether to regret my Lib Dem vote! Speaking of writing, one of pitfalls - and benefits - f being freelance is having discussions like these used as handy procrastination!
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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E.F
Don't you remember the " Demon Eyes " poster ? I may be wrong, but I seem to detect that some of the victorious Labour councillors, who before the election presented themselves as charmers who are never happier than when feeding a new-born kitten from an eye-dropper, are now showing their true colours and attacking and sneering at, those residents who didn't see things their way.
BTW, I thought the Cober speech was quite acceptable. From the reaction, it was obvious that she was addressing labour activists/supporters, not the general public, and she was thanking them for their efforts. It was not an occasion to raise specific political points.
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John D,
Yes, I do remember that. I'm probably "unacceptable" middle class Labour voter, while the income doesn't support this pigeon-holing (so wonder where I fit) This idea of having to tow the party line (surely this expression is "tow" not "toe"? Have always wondered) is one reason I steer clear of party politics, while trying to be involved in local and other issues.
Speech okay but I don't agree it wasn't right moment, in light of many local issues. It is precisely to supporters, who have have stayed loyal despite such things, it would have been responsible and sent right signals to refer, however briefly, to issues of concern; praise with acknowledgement
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Be happy .. I expect the Harringay Foxes are.. now that it's certain that the Duckett's Common Hunt won't be starting up again..
Perhaps that's why the Tories didn't get a national majority?
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I'm bothered by the implied assumptions about voters and class here, my concerns reiterated by a comment such as "Whose side are you on?" Eh? If this doesn't hearken back to exactly the new direction one hopes this election takes in, then I don't know what to say.
I must say too I mostly stay away from online forums, as they often degenerate into abusive shouting matches (between guys, I'm bound to say, generalising shamelessly) and then people trying. Thinking this for some years, I've recently noted a few articles in nationals commenting on just this. Think Simon Jenkins might have written one.
So hoping that isn't what's going on here. The early part of this conversation was about my experiences with Labour locally and my sense nationally leading to a vote for the first time ever for Lib-Dem whose environmental policies - among others - have often been more progressive and more Left, dare I say it than, Labour's. Alas.
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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Isidoris
I think you are missing the point. The post referring to the "poor and disenfranchised of Haringey" who "got out of their frightened little terraces and voted Labour" was, it so happens, made by someone who made his intention to vote Labour very clear. His point was that many people voted Labour out of fear. Judging by your comments you seem to be in complete agreement with that analysis.
I am also a life time Labour voter that split my vote in the local elections for the first time. Having lived in Haringey for over 25 years I am troubled that the East-West split which it seems to me has deepened – it most certainly has not got any better. This is despite 13 years of a Labour government and 40 years of Labour rule in Haringey.
I find the East-West split in terms of councillors very depressing now– it is surely symptomatic of the social divide. I would have thought that the Labour group also should be very troubled by it. The triumphalism of Clare Klober's speech (ok she might well have been a little tired) sits very oddly with the fact there are no Labour councillors West of the tracks and that those to the East are, by your own analysis, voting Labour out of fear. I really hope that the Labour group are able to reflect properly on this result and realise that all is not well in Haringey.
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Permalink Reply by Julie on
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Oh this is just winding me up. I have to weigh in. Before I start, and just so you know, I am a member and officer of the local Labour party. This declaration is required, along with my fingerprints and blood group, so that I can make a contribution to Harringay Online without hypnotising readers and making them bark like dogs and forget their own names.
Bounds Green, Noel Park and Woodside Ward are all 'west of the tracks.' They are in Hornsey and Wood Green. They each returned three Labour councillors, this time, with a big swing to Labour. The only Tottenham ward with any Lib Dem councillors is yours, Harringay. The only Tottenham ward with roots on the west. Go Harringay!
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