Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
'NO' to Ending free bulky waste collections and closing the recycling centre
Haringey's current budget proposals will see the end of free bulky and green waste collections and the closure of one of the recycling centres.
These changes are likely to spell real trouble in this borough. It will inevitably lead to a significant increase in dumping with the poorest areas being hardest hit.
Research has shown that introducing a charge can lead to a drop in demand for collections of 50-75% on previous levels. Fly-tipping will increase as a result.
An alternative approach to introducing a collection charge would be to limit or reduce the number of items accepted for free, and/or the number of free collections allowed per year.
An alternative to closing the recycling centre would be to control who uses the centre and make a small charge as appropriate.
The cabinet meets to decide on this issue in two weeks' time. Whilst the consultation is now closed you can still email the cabinet member responsible (peray.ahmet@haringey.gov.uk) and copy your councillor.
Budget proposals: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/local-democracy/policies-and-strategies/...
Survey (CLOSED 22 JAN): http://www.haringey.gov.uk/survey/budget-2017-18
Tags for Forum Posts: rubbish, waste collection, waste collection charges
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You're right. Some places have become de facto dumps. Not sure how that's fixed. Would regular visits and removal just encourage more? Investigation and taking a hard line on prosecution - including naming and shaming - might help
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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Well there was a pilot I was involved in at Redbridge Council where they posted CCTV footage of fly-tippers on their website and encouraged members of the public to "snitch". It was completely ineffective. Not one single report was made as a result of the campaign but we did get a complaint from Big Brother Watch (civil liberties group) challenging the legitimacy of publishing a photo of someone leaving a flattened cardboard box at a recycling point when the bin was full. I have to say I agreed with them. That individual had made the effort to take their box to a recycling point and was trying to do the right thing but ended up with their photo plastered over the Council webpage like a serious criminal.
My suggested solution if there is a dumping "hot spot" would be to put a dumpster there which is emptied along the usual round. At least rubbish would be properly contained and not get strewn all over the pavement. the problem apparently is that obviously there is no individual business to charge for the use of the dumpster and the dumpster and emptying costs money.
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Just to add, the pilot was not pursued because it was a total waste of time and effort.
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Completely coincidentally I saw this story:
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/15084326.Know_this_man__He_...
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That comes from the manager of the team of engineers who''s job it is to configure and set up the phones for Council. Just like my own Council, all phones are fully encrypted with double factor authentication and remote wiping capability. As part of the roll-out an agreed suite of tested and approved apps are also installed on every phone and that includes the Report-It app, along with things like Trainline.Com and tfl bus times etc. To me it seems so blindingly that they would install Report It on Council phones, I wonder why you would even question the validity of my assertion. Look at it from the other way, why wouldn't they install it on Council phones? And no, there is no way of knowing anyone issued with the app uses it. The same is true of all users of the app. If you want a tracking system with that level of complexity it costs a lot of money and the whole point of the exercise is to save money.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Thank you. I too often think some things are "blindingly" obvious. But it often turns out that they don't work in the intended way. And sometimes well-intentioned, highly skilled, expert designers of a system are surprised and perhaps even learn something new when they observe people using their system.
Actually "the whole point of the exercise" - all the free reporting apps and websites - is to help keep our streets clean, fill potholes, fix streetlights etc etc. Some work well and may even save money; others less so.
You're right to suggest the value of "look at it from the other way". That's what I try to do. It involves gently and curiously questioning the evidence for every assertion, from anyone. A rebuttable presumption, or a falsifiable hypothesis.
Back in the 1980's I always liked the green screen message which saved me making many an error "Are You Sure?"
In any case, Question One should be: What's going on round here? Question Two: What's really going on round here?
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
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And sometimes well-intentioned, highly skilled, expert designers of a system are surprised and perhaps even learn something new when they observe people using their system.
And sometimes well-intentioned, highly UNskilled, and INexpert members of the public believe that armed with the response to an FOI request that they know better than people with qualifications, specific skills and years or sometimes decades of experience.
Designers of all public facing Council systems routinely carry out UX (user experience) testing ie. see how the public actually react to using the system and act on that feedback. Again, I wonder why you think they wouldn't.
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In sixteen years as a Haringey councillor, receiving reports - verbal and written from senior staff - I recall no evidence that designers of these systems "routinely carry out user experience testing to see how the public actually react to using the system".
I've heard claims that this happens. Which may be genuine and accurate. I've also seen and been told of many examples which led me to doubt that this always and routinely happens. Sometimes the person telling me was an insider who ruefully admitted that mistakes were made and wanted to help in putting this right for the individual and family concerned.
I do not regard every claim by professional experts as beyond doubt and challenge. Nor do I accept without question every assertion by members of the public that the Council is at fault/ wrong/negligent/acting in bad faith.I respect professional expertise and especially the professional experts I've met who offer their advice with caveats and alternatives, suggesting that they may possibly be wrong and that there is conflicting evidence and are alternative points of view.
I also try to listen carefully to people whose "expertise" consists in being on the receiving end of services run by powerful experts. I have - often enough- been lied to and served up bullshit by a very small minority of expert senior council staff, and so I try never to ignore or dismiss such user expertise.
In my view, the aim should always be to learn from and synthesise both professional expertise and user/customer views and experience.
I can't recall coming across the expression "UX testing" before. I have come across good and sometimes superb members of staff who are experts at sympathetic listening to residents and learning from their comments and complaints. A feature of their professional expertise tended to be a willingness not just to listen and reflect but to go to see and test things for themselves.
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You've never even heard of UX testing? I think your 16 years of experience need dragging into the 21st century in that case Alan. Perhaps you should Google it.
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Alan, I've volunteered to do user experience several times over the years. It's very common. I also commissioned user experience testing for a planning IT system I was in charge of implementing about 10 years ago.
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Thanks Michael, I chose my words carefully. I didn't say user experience testing never happens.
I start from the other end of the problem. The streets I walk down are increasingly dumped and littered. I hope more people are regularly reporting this. But if so the aim or desired outcome - clean streets, fixed potholes, cleaned graffiti etc etc -isn't being achieved.
I also suspect that if people report problems and don't see them fixed, they'll eventually give up their reporting.
In any case not everyone is confident and comfortable using online services. I have some - very limited - experience being approached by and trying to help residents who have been told they have to use the internet for a task, but who lacked the knowledge and confidence to do so.
I've also met residents who give an email address and then explain that they haven't read my email, for various assorted reasons. Like their PC isn't working. Or their daughter hasn't been round. etc etc. If I wanted to be sure of reaching them, it needed an old-fashioned phonecall.
Many people came to see me about a problem because they preferred talking to a human rather than get frustrated trying to find their way around press-1-press-3-press-4 machine menus. (Sometimes I too get frustrated navigating machine menus.) Haven't you ever paid a bit more talk to a person?As JJ B says the system is not working. I've been hearing for many years that going digital will fix it. As well as saving money. Maybe one day that dream will come true.
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I agree. Although I didn't have a council provided phone at work, we were all encouraged to have a Report It app on our own phones and send in problems we saw in the borough as we were out and about. I certainly did and so did my colleagues.
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