Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
No More Compulsory Bus Stops
Occasionally over recent years I've mused to myself about how Londoners just don't seem to understand the difference between Compulsory and Request bus stops any more. Today I learned that it was my understanding that was at fault in this issue.
In times gone by a red bus stop with a white circle indicated a 'Request' stop. This meant you had to stick out your arm or ring the bell to stop the bus. White bus stop signs with a red circle indicated 'Compulsory' stops. This meant that the bus would always stop irrespective of whether a passenger requested it. I assumed this still held true.
Travelling home today, my bus failed to stop at a compulsory stop. I asked the driver why he hadn't stopped at the compulsory stop. He told me that it was now accepted practice amongst drivers to stop only when requested to. I asked if it was TfL policy and was told that it was just practice and the only way to meet the demands of the timetable.
I Googled it just now and found the following from TfL to Richmond Council in response to an enquiry:
Following a stakeholder consultation conducted in 2007, we have implemented a change to bus stopping practices, removing the distinction between compulsory and request stops. It was found that most people using bus services in London do not distinguish between a request stop and a compulsory stop. The vast majority of passengers hail the bus if they wish to board and ring the bell to alight. We are gradually standardising stops so that they all use the compulsory flag (a red roundel on a white background). All stops in central London are now of this same design.
The change effectively means that the onus is on the driver to stop if someone wishes to get on or off, and drivers should only pass a stop if they are certain that no-one wishes to board or alight. We did not publicise the change as research indicated that very few passengers would be changing their normal practice of hailing and ringing the bell.
Strange decision not to publicise the change though.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bethany Burrow Atherton on
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All sounds a bit self-fulfilling really - when I first moved to London (over 10 years ago), I overheard quite a lot of "discussion" between drivers and passengers about whether or not the driver should have stopped at a stop when the passenger had not rung the bell. Part of the problem is that unless you use the specific bus stop regularly, you wouldn't know by the time you ought to be ringing the bell whether you're getting off at a request stop or not. Add to that bus drivers who don't stop at request stops even when people are gesticulating wildly at them, and you end up with a situation where everyone hails and rings at every stop as it's the only way you can get anywhere near a guarantee that the bus will stop for you (although some bus drivers still seem intent on ensuring no-one gets where they want to be; that said, I was very impressed by the driver on the no. 4 when I went to the bl**dy sorting office a couple of weeks ago, as he said good evening to everyone as they got on the bus - refreshing change).
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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Hmm, does that perhaps explain why people seem to press the bell repeatedly between stops? I've only noticed this irritating phenomenon recently and it might irk me slightly less if there was a good reason for it...I've been on two buses in the last few months where a driver refused to restart the bus until the bell stopped being pressed. And I didn't blame him.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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I don't approve of this idea much..
In fact, I think the opposite should be the norm. All stops should be compulsory and buses should be required to stop at every stop.
This is basically just an economy measure. Freeing up time to enable the bus to run to often too tight timetables. The less travelling time, the fewer drivers you need over a 24 hour period.
If this continues, why bother stopping to pick up passengers at all, just let the buses run from end to end as fast as possible.
One problem in London is that bus stops are often needlessly too close to one other. Some thinning out of the stopping places would maybe be a better solution.
On a historical note, bus services in London originally had no bus stops at all. Buses would stop when and where passengers wanted, just by ringing the bell. The first designated 'bus' stops were tried out in London in 1937, on the section of road between Camden Town & Seven Sisters Corner. Before that, only trams and trolleybuses had desingnated stopping places.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I think compulsory stops only work in the situation you describe Stephen, where the stops are placed fairly far apart. I've just come back from Paris where this seems to be the case and it can be a hell of a long walk (in my case from Gare du Nord to Gare de l'Est to try and get on the no. 28)
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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To me it seems more than a "strange decision not to publicise the change ..." Isn't it more like the children's game of Spot the Difference?
Close your eyes tightly while Transport for London make some secret changes. Now girls and boys, let's see if you can spot them! Oh, it's such fun!
Too easy? To make it harder we're going to change all the signs to mean the opposite of what they say. We're going to paint "Compulsory Stop" on every busstop. But this really means "Request Stop". So, boys and girl, you have to ding the bell. (But not too much dinging, please. The driver's got a headache.)
Wicked, eh? But don't worry, Mums and Dads, that doesn't mean 'wicked'. It means the opposite. It's just a game!
And our nice drivers are joining in too. Because under the new rules they are allowed to drive past a stop marked "Compulsory" (=Request, remember?). But then only if they are certain that nobody wants to get on or off. Which means no dings on the bus. And only when the people standing at the stop are former bus drivers from Berlin. Let's all smile and wave to them as we sail by.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Bring back that overhead cord running the length of the bus that you pull to go Ding Ding I say. Much more fun than push-buttons.
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Want to pull that overhead cable, Pam? Well I have some good news. But only if you visit Southwold and if Olive is still around. I do hope she is. Because when we met her, the cable was in full working order and all the passengers were invited to ding-a-ling.
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If you'd like to ride on a tram that actually worked along Green Lanes .. Try the National Tram Museum at Crich, Derbyshire.
The tram shown here most definitely worked along Green Lanes, Seven Sisters Road and Lordship Lane from 1930 until 1938.
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Imagine seeing those going up and down Green Lanes. Fantastic.
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Cllr Nilgun Canver once told me about the trams in Istanbul. She had the idea of a shuttle tram along Green Lanes.
On a weekend in Seattle back in 2004 Zena and I enjoyed the free Waterfront Streetcar (tram). It seemed to a popular tourist attraction to the nearby Pike Place Market. Seems that it was discontinued in 2005.
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Permalink Reply by 1ive8kj6rxu9g on
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Pedants corner. I don't think you're right Stephen. That particular car could not be fitted with a plough carrier because of its central entrance and therefore couldn't operate on the Green Lanes routes which continued into central London using the LCC's conduit system of current collection. It was confined to MET routes 40 and 60 through Finchley which didn't penetrate central London and was sold to Sunderland in 1938. Other cars of the same class though certainly worked route 21 between North Finchley and Holborn.
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