Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
New Shop Opening Behind The Salisbury
The retail premises behind the Salisbury, originally used as an off-licence, is in the process of conversion into a badly needed resource for Harringay. We're getting another jeweller.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by John D on
-
I suspect neither Bosphorus or Kris Kutz complied with any listing constraint
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh on
-
That looks to be the case. I suspect that Haringey Planning are not patrolling the streets to check. But this is no reason not to ensure that listing requirements are followed henceforth.
I suspect because it’s not part of the pub itself, the planning department may not consider it to be covered by the listing. From the listing, it’s not clear exactly what’s included and if anything is excluded.
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
-
The listing is normally of all parts that make up the construction unless part is specifically excluded. The listing from the Historic England register is below. The property line on the map seems to take in the entire premises.
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1358865
I imagine that the small side “shop” was originally constructed for Off Sales as was pretty common then (so kids could get beer jugs filled up for Mum and Dad as the minimum age for being served alcohol on licenced premises when it was built was 12).
-
-
Thanks, Michael. Yes, it was the listing entry that left me uncertain. The whole building is probably protected as long as that part is considered to be part of the building. It’s very likely that it would be considered to be within the curtilage of the building so it would probably be protected. However, the works probably won’t be considered to affect the special interest in the building. So listed building consent won’t be required. As I understand it, this means that it will be down to Haringey planning. So quite how that’ll come out in the wash, I’m not sure
As for the original purpose of the building, as I mentioned in my original post, it was indeed an offy. I’ve added a link to an Edwardian newspaper ad in a comment on the previous page. Love the idea of streams of children running along the road with jugs full of beer.
-
-
Listed building consent is always required for any kind of change, even things that would be permitted on an unlisted structure (repainting, pointing and so on).
The problem is with such a small Planning Enforcement team it’s going to be up to interested locals to keep and eye open and to put pressure on if anything seems worrying. After taking several years to obtain a planning qualification and getting up to your eyeballs in debt in the process, a career in Enforcement isn’t seen as terrible attractive!
The listing is a description of how the building was in 1974 plus any approved changes since that date - good, the bad and the ugly.
-
-
LB consent isn't always required according to Historic England who say, "listed building consent is only required if works affect the special interest in the relevant structure."
Agree about the enforcement team's lack of resources. We can probably never expect then to be aware of all changes going on day-to-day in the borough, but we can expect them to respond to reports sent in to them. It looks like that's what's happening here, but we need to keep a watching brief. It seems like this back part of the building has slipped through the net for close on half a century. It's mebbe about time the Council stirred themselves.
-
-
They seem to be at odds with government guidance!
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_no...
-
-
That's how these things tend to be, hence my uncertainty about the status of the rear part of the building.
Is sounds like HE and 'the Government' have probably made different interpretations of the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990. I imagine there must be some case law of some sort which has made a determination on the issue.
-
-
-
Suppose it all comes down to the interpretation of “alteration or extension in any manner which would affect its character as a building of special architectural or historic interest”. For my old employer that meant changing the look, feel and relationship to other buildings. So paint type, paint colour, door furniture...... all could be seen as affecting character. In any circumstances the advice is to always apply for listing building consent (which has a zero fee anyway) even if only to have a decision that the works are lawful and don’t need consent. Saves a whole heap of hoo-haa later.
-
-
Permalink Reply by ChestnutsGary on
-
There are actually quite a few interesting listed properties around Haringey - see this link for details:
-
-
I just heard back from planning on this (though I'm not convinced about the date!):
Your ref:
Date:
07/07/2014
Our ref:
LBW/2019/00007
Direct dial:
0208 489 2509
Email:
ayo.kumuyi@haringey.gov.uk
Re: 1 Grand ParadeTottenhamN4 1JX
I refer to your enquiry concerning the above address.
Your concern has been registered. This matter is already under investigation and is being dealt with by Ayo Kumuyi, whose details are above.
You will be contacted again, either by letter or by email, to be informed what the findings are and what decision we have reached within 8 weeks of the date of receipt of the original enquiry.
Please be advised that further information on our service can be found on our website at:
www.haringey.gov.uk/planning_enforcement
Yours sincerely,
Service Assistant
On behalf of
Planning Enforcement
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
