Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Would be interesting and useful is someone could list which Labour candidates standing in this election are Momentum supporters and which are not as some voters who are not in the the know might find the information useful before they cast their vote.  

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What does Momentum mean to you? If you like or don't like it, please say why?

Because they're divisive, identity politics mongering election losers.

They ran Haringey Council into the ground with various scandals under Joe.

Imho UKIP/Momentum are two sides of the same silly coin.

I'm just not voting anyone who's Labour.

Is Momentum  Labour in Haringey borough?
It seems to be acting as a separate Party attacking active strong left-Labour candidates. Using - if Carla Francome's twitter threads are accurate - some underhand tactics and accusations. A nastiness which resembles more the dishonest propaganda which brought down Jeremy Corbyn.

To be clear, I am not a "Corbynist" nor in the Momentum Party. I've never met Corbyn. Though I did once  see him speak briefly at a Labour conference organised by John McDonnell. But I have paid close attention to what I personally and finally judged to be nonsense in respect of the antisemitism allegations against him. Judged on the basis of exploring a substantial pile of books, articles, videos  etc.)
I'm also sickened and  angry at the purge of longstanding and loyal Party members who like me, rejected the uncritical pro-Zionist line adopted by the present national Labour Party Leadership.

I have read material on the Momentum website and found much I agree with. But I cannot agree with what appears to be Momentum tactics in Haringey. I prefer to think for myself. And yes listen to other's  viewpoint and perhaps modify or change my mind. But not accept authoritarian boss-style  whether Starmer or Kober or whoever is the Dear Leader.

How many Labour members have been 'purged', Alan?

We only tend to hear about those in positions of public office such as serial offender Noah Tucker, Preston Tabois, and Gideon Bull (quite how these people remain on Council committees and in their roles is beyond me). 

Is there a breakdown of permanent suspensions and naughty-step timeouts for antisemitism? 

Not voting Labour is the only way of ensuring that Momentum don't sneak in.

A Labour loss is the only positive outcome for residents and for the Haringey Labour party itself. 

Residents would benefit from a new broom to get the borough back on track after decades of Labour incompetence and wasting of tax payers money. Perhaps that new broom could also make inroads to addressing some of the perennial problems that have been ignored for decades. Now there's a thought!

The Labour Party would benefit from the rocket up the a*** it needs to face down the Momentum faction and get back to its core values of social justice and representing the working classes. A hungry and refreshed Labour would then start thinking about how to win back the local electorate instead of taking it for granted like it does currently. 

I'm not wedded to the Lib Dems but at the moment they are the only viable alternative to more of the same.

Completely agree with Brian - Haringey Labour believe they "own" the borough and so can do whatever they like - which mainly seems to end in a belief that 'politics' and the 'process of politics' is more important than the concerns of local residents and voters...

This is a tiny, TINY number of Labour Party members. The ward of Harringay has nearly 500 alone. The selection meetings, where they choose candidates for consistently Labour wards like St Ann's, should be MUCH better attended and entryism of this nature would then not be possible.

This is a good thread because I like the OP need to separate what could be considered to be hardcore leftist infividuals from the more middle of center Labour candidates. If the OPs question is not answered then it could have a big impact on how voters vote. I'm not anti Labour if the candidate is middle left but I'm not putting my tick against any momentum candidates.  

Phrases like "hardcore leftists" are unhelpful in undertsanding what's going on. Similarly terms like middle and soft left. But I'm flummoxed  about what you do mean, since you posted above that you're
"... just not voting anyone who's Labour."

I'm not saying this to pick an argument or make a point. I'm happy to engage with anyone who wants to know why there may be good  reasons to consider voting for many Labour candidates in Haringey on 5 May.
But at the moment I'm personally not willing to vote for people who self-define as - or pretend to be - Labour but don't appear to understand basic Labour principles and values.  Starting with the notion that however heated debates of principle and policy may get, - and such debates are essential - certain behaviour is not acceptable.

Which includes deliberate lying about and smearing other members.

Plainly there are "fuzzy" areas. Where for example people have themselves been lied to and believe those lies without checking.

My apology to Will, for not being clear in referring to a Labour Party purge of members. I meant at the National Party level and and not specifically to local Haringey members. Is there a local list? I don't know for sure, but assume someone in the Party's London Regional team must know who is suspended; who expelled; and who has resigned.  Also whose membership subscription has expired.

For understandable reasons of personal privacy any such list is not public. And members are asked not to share the information publicly, But for various reasons such information may come out. In a few cases members themselves decide they have every right to share their personal information if they choose.

A widely known and interesting example is that of Cyril Chilson expelled by a disgraceful Kangaroo Court - his own description - a panel of three people. One of them was Haringey Councillor Emina Ibrahim, Described by Cyril Chilson as taking a minor part in the farce - again Mr Chilson's word. Emina should be deeply ashamed that she did not protest on Mr Chilson's behalf and walk out. 

Cyril Chilson's own account of the hearing was reported in great detail on a number of websites including Labour Briefing.
The detail given is so full and precise that I wondered whether it was taken from a shorthand note. Mr Chilson mentions that the complainants about him were anonymous. This model of secret informants seems to have become a standard method of operating.

Cyril Chilson's expulsion case is a good example of where criticism of the actions and policies of the Israeli Government usually in respect of the treatment of Palestinians - appear to have been confused - if not intentionally conflated - with antisemitism. For more examples read the website Jewish Voice for Labour.

Of course I am not suggesting there is no antisemitism in the UK - expressed as hatred towards Jews and, for example, towards Jewish community institutions and religious facilities such as synagogues.  This is real and deadly serious. I would make a plea not to trivialise it by mistakenly accepting the propaganda that Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic.
Or please read the Guardian's report on 82 year old Diana Neslen - investigated three times for tweets about the Palestinians.

I don't think Emina Ibrahim feels shame Alan.

She had a very poor record as a do nothing Councillor in Harringay Ward a few years ago. It was clear to all it was just a sinecure to enable her to climb the greasy pole of local Labour politics. She jumped ship at the first whiff of a seat in Parliament. Fortunately for all concerned that didn't go anywhere. She is now sitting around presumably waiting for David Lammy to die. 



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