Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Lyn Garner's Tottenham 'war zone' slur confirmed by Nick Walkley
The defence of the indefensible is that the comments are being taken out of context and in any case were ( - you have to admire Nick Walkley's cheek) "specifically related to the appearance of one area during major disruptive works".
Yet, because I wasn't there at a private meeting ( aka the bus tour for councillors) and because nobody present when the insult was made has complained, then he is refusing to take further action.
In his reply to my formal complaint Mr Walkley said:
'Please be assured that had such a statement been made in the context which your email asserts this would be a matter of concern to me - that however is not the case.'
Anyway, the truth is out and on-the-record.
http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2014-08-06-Tottenham-war-zone-co...
If the person leading on the regeneration of Tottenham is disparaging the area then how confident can people be that their views to not be bulldozed out of the way actually matters?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by markb on
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The thought police does not deem your way with words politically correct!
Off to re-education, Citizen Anderson!
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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My kitchen was a bit of a tip Mark.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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I've probably said something like "it looks like a bloody war zone In that kitchen".
Michael, we, do not know the exact context of the War Zone remarks (it may have been in a meeting before or after the tour on Saturday 21 June).
My understanding is that the Council Chief Executive stated the remarks related to a part of Tottenham, rather than to all of Tottenham. We do not know to which part or aspect was referred. However, we do know the broad context:- in the context of a bus tour, for new Councillors, of Tottenham Regeneration
- by the most senior permanent officer of planning in the London Borough of Haringey
The speaker was one of the Haringey-trio who in March – and in connection with Tottenham Regeneration – went on the trip to meet property developers at Cannes.
In my opinion, this context is significantly different from any description you might make of your kitchen remodelling, or even your talking with mates down the pub about Tottenham.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Michael, I've no idea what Lyn Garner actually meant by the phrase which - according to the Council's Chief Executive, Nick Walkley - she did use.
And I'd like to know what she meant. Because her underlying attitudes and views are important. Ms Garner is one of the powerful and mostly unaccountable people now making and driving through decisions about Tottenham - the place which has been our home and the centre of our lives for over thirty years. Decisions which as far as I can tell, are made mostly in secret and with reports and documents they choose not to publish.
This is not because I'm the "Thought Police", and insist that everyone thinks and speaks only what I deem "politically correct" words and phrases. On the contrary I want to know and understand the views and assumptions of people I don't agree with. And crucially the evidence on which they base their views.
Should Haringey ever opt for such open debate I may find agree that people I think I disagree with turn out to be right or partly right. Or they might agree they are wrong or partly wrong. Or we might all discover we're wrong and there are other better options.
Three years after the riots of August 2011 it still feels to me that we are too much like the parable of the blind men standing around the elephant.
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Evidence and transparency in decision making is a lot more important that the nuance and hidden meaning of a word said in a semi-private context - I'm all for it.
Is there a way to force some transparency on the decision making process? I'd put several Freedom of Information requests in on the subject, but I am too ignorant on the inner workings to put in acceptable requests. I'd go for internal budgets and due dilligence (ie. evidence) behind decisions/options disregarded and meeting minutes.
Alan, maybe you have some insights into the specific working of the regeneration team so adequately narrowly scoped request (ie. information must exist and be retrieved/sent for <£500) can be formulated to force some transparency on the issue.
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Sorry, Mark, I've no insights on the internal workings of the regeneration team.
For people who don't know, what appears to happen is that Freedom of Information Act questions are forwarded by the F.o.I. team to the relevant staff in the Council, who then supply answers. I'd guess that how full, accurate and helpful these answers are will depend partly on whether there's any culture of openness in a particular corner of the Council.
But partly also on the staff who draft the replies. How much do they know? Obviously staff low in the pecking order won't be present at private meetings of "leading" councillors and developers. And perhaps some lower level regeneration staff genuinely believe what they're doing will benefit Tottenham. They haven't yet seen the bigger picture.
Your assumption is clearly correct, Mark, that clearer and more focused questions make it harder for Haringey to obfuscate. But since I haven't seen your own F.o.I questions I can't make any suggestions. Why not use WhatDoTheyKnow free website? It means you share your questions and the answers with everyone who looks. Now or in the future. Browsing the questions Haringey has been asked, you'll find several questioners who are far more skilled than me in winkling out inconvenient truths. See for instance the F.o.I. questions of the splendid Barry James when he shed light on the murky dealings on Pinkham Way.
Giving your full name would demonstrate your own commitment to transparency. Although I realise that someone's job and/or personal circumstances may make this difficult at a time of growing fear in Haringey. For example, when people are being victimised for being effective trade unionists.
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I hadn't considered internal information hiding from the low level staffer - I'll have a root around the FoI work Barry James did.
I won't be posting my full name - I avoid having a presence on the internet or databases- it's a security threat (this goes for everyone, a long discussion).
Further, anonymous discussions reduce ad-hominem arguments. I prefer a discussion on merit rather than persona. Disclosing my name would add nothing to this conversation - I am a resident in this borough, nothing more.
You might think it's hypocritcal to call for transparency and then operate pseudonymously. I see transparency and evidence in decision making as an anti-dote or at least a damper to abusing power and sheds light on incompetence. Since there is no power at stake, nor am I in public office, this standard does not apply.
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I don't think it's hypocritical, MarkB. I just give less weight to the views of people wearing masks.
My point about WhatDoTheyKnow is that the questions and answers are recorded publicly and retained. It's potentially at least one democratic tool which enables small bits of data to gradually build information and eventually knowledge.
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Clive, unless they've since been back to the Riviera, local councils' troughing and sluicing with developers at MIPIM took place in Cannes. But I expect the perfume of money is the same in posh hotels further east.
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ALAN, I'm not an habitué of the Riveria and probably had in mind the Casino (Firoz Kassam, Ally Pally etc.).
They're about 40 minutes apart by train.
OK, Cannes the earlier version and search & replace links: ... if one's recently been discussing parts of it in an awe zone – or should that be Palme d' Or-zone ?
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Cllr Denise Marshall tweets about War Zone Tottenham .
Lynn Garner alleged to have said it.
Martin Ball does not like it and complains.
Nick Walkley covers her back as it is out of context.
Bernard Hogan-Howe steams in to find out and arrests a culprit.
Guardian headlines it as the frontline.
Who will forecast the next stage?
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