Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Surprised this hasn't been posted up here and wonder if the recent lack of posts on the LTNs means that people are getting used to them.

An interim review of the LTNs is here:

https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/documents/b29485/Item%2010%20In...

It's nothing too surprising. Traffic way down on roads in the LTNs. Sometimes up and sometimes down on the boundary roads. Not much impact on most bus services with a bit of an increase on West Green Rd.

Next steps are to tweak a few things and start the 18 month Experimental Traffic Orders again (I assume so that people can make formal protests again). Main change will be to allow Blue Badge holders through all LTN boundaries rather than just the one they are based in.

https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/documents/g10554/Printed%20minu...

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic

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lucky you if you can! I live off 2 boundary roads and have cycled in London for over 15y. But my journeys and the ones for my kids (especially their school run alongside all boundary roads) has become nothing but more dangerous! Maybe you should look into why you love your car so much that it needs such drastic measures for all, especially the disabled (like me) and essential car users who might be in the car by themselves (like my husband, who drives for his business whenever he can't avoid).

Lady Di speaks from beyond... 

I agree with this. 

Part of the rationale is to make quieter safer streets for waling cycling - tick. 

Part of the rationale is to make driving a less easy/good option, thus "encouraging" people to walk and/or cycle more. 

The state of the climate is an era defining, nay era changing issue that needs radical change in what we think of as "normal". Our inherited "normal" is tipping the climate into a state not seen during the era of human civilisation. 

And yes, bummer if you live on a boundary rod for sure, I live on Wightman which was shit before the LTNs were introduced and is shit still. Indeed the main point it got shitter was when Hackney and Islington beat Haringey to the punch and made driving through their boroughs a gargantuan ball ache. 

I often cycle past long lines of traffic and think, "guys, surely that feels shit, how shit would it need to be before you give it up and get out of your car?" 

Rory, I think you'll find that this type of hectoring and scare mongering doesn't help your cause and simply drives people away (pun intended). And now the government has cottoned on to the fact that people have had enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66351785

Air in London is much cleaner than last century. LTNs and ULEZ are simply about raising money. In the case of ULEZ it's about bailing out TFL. In the case of the LTN its about raising money to cover Haringey Council's exceeding poor financial decisions in previous years.

Will the LTNs be removed when all cars are electric? No, instead we'll be made to pay per mile or some other such monsense to allow then to keep fleecing us.

It's interesting that you consider a universal truth accepted by the vast majority of scientists on the planet to be 'hectoring and scaremongering'. What a position to take. Is *all* science rubbish, Cem, or just this specific branch? Does magic keep aeroplanes in the sky, or do you trust those experts? And it's also interesting that your ability to see into the future is so wonderfully specific. You can see a future where LTNs exist, despite all cars being electric, but in this future there is no climate emergency? It's just hectoring and scaremongering: a made up bogeyman, that's an elaborate ruse to raise money? I'd love to share that opinion, I really would. What a simple life that is. I guess one future is backed up by facts, science and things that are provable and the other is your pure conjecture based on some opinions you hold. I know which one I believe in. And sorry, but you are wrong. The majority of people think the climate emergency is real and terrifying and needs to be addressed. Air in London has traditionally been poor due to the manufacturing output of the industrial revolution and using this to justify not addressing the climate emergency is a classic straw man argument and clearly absurd. Keep your conspiracy theories, conjecture and crystal balls, Cem, history will not judge them well. (And keep merrily trolling on your many subjects here on Harringay Online, we'd miss these opinions if they were to stop.) And all the government has cottoned on to is that rowing back on their environmental pledges might win a few, extra votes at the next election, which is an embarrassingly desperate thing to do and will probably backfire on them. 

Hmmm. Where in my post did I say there isn't a clinate problem? Where did I say I'm anti-science? I'm simply saying that ULEZ and LTNs are cons that have minimal impact on the climate but are being used to raise money.

As for trolling...I'm happy that you enjoy my occasional posts but your post here is the very definition of trolling so I bow to you in that respect. Right side of history indeed! People might indulge that sort of hyperbolic hectoring when its done by an autistic Danish schoolgirl but its a bit odd coming from a grown man. I'll leave you to splutter 'how dare you'!

Yet another one intimidated by an intelligent Swedish female (she’s not Danish, she’s not a school girl and her autism is irrelevant).

Yes, there are millions of us. I don't know what it is about Swedish women in particular but I'm so pleased you've highlighted this outrageous phenomenon.  It all started with Pippy Longstocking. Since then, just the sight of blond hair and pigtails sends me behind the sofa until I recover. And that band! Make them go away. Please.

I saw the PM's comments on this and found them very depressing:

"The vast majority of people in the country use their cars to get around and are dependent on cars.

"I just want to make sure people know that I'm on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them,"

Nothing about public transport, walking, cycling or whatever. Just use your cars and to hell with everyone else.

Not sure exactly what you think the LTN fines are being spent on. Revenue from fines must be re-invested by authorities into traffic scheme such as highway maintenance work and funding for concessionary travel. Got to say I was also pretty surprised by how many people got caught by them. There are massive planters with No Motor Vehicles signs on them, it makes me a bit concerned how much attention drivers are paying to the road.

Exhaust fumes are only one of a whole array of issues with cars. Even with electric cars there is still air pollution from brakes and tyres and also the issues with how cars dominate a street. Until having a kid I didn't realise just how much time I'd spend saying "look out for the cars".

I've not gotten used to them, I'm just tired of fighting as it seems you need to fight on every level in England ATM to get what you need and where you pay for services with your taxes. Also disheartened by the anti-cyclist sentiment of many anti-LTN people. Haringey has once again let us down as they constantly do, see our pool. Tottenham is guinea pig and cash cow in one for them!

People haven't posted about LTN's here because I suspect they are exhausted by it and I suspect want to stay clear of the animosity. Your definition of sometimes "up" and  and sometimes "down". is rather vague and appears to be based on your subjective interpretation of the traffic increase on the boundary roads.   Judging from the replies from your post from people who live the boundary roads most replies are against the LTN (but would seem are for the aim of reducing traffic and pollution) and they strongly disagree with you. And I share the strong disagreement too.  You are downplaying the traffic increases on West Green Road.  It might vary fractionally, and traffic on Willoughby Road is notably better than it was initially at the start of the scheme.  But overall the traffic, after 6 months of the scheme, is demonstrably worse on most, if not all of the boundary roads. I appreciate the sentiment behind the scheme. but the fact remains, is that so far, it is not succeeding in changing drivers behaviour.   Drivers will always simply put up with the added inconvenience and often misery.  (there have been road works on West Green Road which exacerbated the traffic dramatically) But perhaps what is more important than the misery, anger and inconvenience is the increase of pollution of the boundary roads for the people that live there.....

Drivers behaviour will likely not change unless there is decent, robust, safe and more affordable or better value public transport that genuinely incentivises drivers to not use their cars. LTN's would be far more successful if public transport was significantly better. 

Meanwhile I wonder of you have noticed that the ULEZ scheme that now covers all of London is full of LTN's across in the London boroughs which seems to me will cancel out any pollution reduction that a LTN might have achieved... it is not just old cars that pollute....

Our very own David Lammy was on LBC last week suggesting tradesmen and women should just use public transport to get around. I can imagine the painters on the bus with their ladders and tins of paint, builders lugging their saws and wood and hammers up the tube stairs and gardeners hauling their clippings home on the train every night. He's honestly got no idea. Never done a days work in his life. I doubt he even knows any working class people.

David is a phoney anyway. Bragging on that he is Tottenham through and through, but moved to the leafier greens of Hornsey long ago! He's no better than many other politicians! Lost touch with many of us. Sadly, there's little alternative.

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