New LTN started today. I was working at the beginning of Langham Road, and had a small job on Cornwall Road just off St Anne's. So instead of a two minute drive, I had to drive all the way along West Green Road to Duckett's Common, turn down Green Lanes and thence all the way along St Anne's.There was a long queue of traffic and it took twenty minutes. That's 20 minutes of wasted time, and 20minutes of additional fumes along the route. So the traffic is merely displaced to major roads along with additional pollution for the residents there. Not sure what the benefit is...
How do the half of the residents without cars cope? I've probably done one family shop at Green Lanes in a car in the past 20 years. Or taking Dunelm as an example it's about 30 minutes on the bus.
Public transport in London could be better but it is still very good. The solution to cars holding up buses isn't to make it easier for cars to get around.
I don't really buy the rat-running v local traffic, it's all traffic.
We cope via using online deliveries, or occasionally having enough time for several leisurely strolls to local or even not so local shops. I've walked to Homebase in the Arena from Seven Sisters during the pandemic but really haven't the time nowadays.
Dunelm in 30 mins - the Friern Barnet one? You were lucky. Takes me over an hour on 2 buses, then 10-15 min walk through the park. With brother in his car it was about 30 ins each way but we also went to B&Q & another builders place nearby, so the car was justifiably full.
A friend used to use Carlingford Rd as a rat run as it saved queuing along West Green Rd, but can't do that any more. My brother disliked doing that as it involved extra turns for what he felt were little gains.
I went to Dunelm after moving to my new flat earlier this year. Took around half an hour including two buses and a walk through a car park - I didn't see a park!
AndrewAW1 — You may not see a difference in types of traffic, but it’s been a constant beef in many, many HoL threads that “local” traffic is “good” but “through” traffic (all those beastly commuters from Hertfordshire, Enfield and other foreigh parts who have the temerity to drive down “our” streets, especially on the Ladder) is both bad and the cause of all Harringay traffic problems. Avoiding a well-known word ending “-BY”, there’s a strong temptation to use “hypocritical” to describe some, though not all, advocates of LTN road closures and exclusionary measures — in favour of them only as long, of course, as existing residents don’t have to give up their own cars and can still take “short cuts” through other people’s roads.
I don’t drive or do big family shops, I do use public transport; I haven’t been to Dunelm but have made many long and time-consuming treks by bus to (now closed) Edmonton Ikea, all of which required taxis to get stuff back, and the Western Road recycling centre (also a cab ride). It’s not impossible, but it’s inconvenient, very lengthy and impractical for buying anything more than small items or taking all those heavy and bulky things that, by definition, won’t go in a doorstep recycling bin. Making traffic worse on main roads, adding miles to journeys, increasing pollution and delaying public transport isn’t an answer.
Indeed, hypocritical was the word I used https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/st-ann-s-ltn-start-date-22...
I've carried some pretty big things home from Ikea on the 341, although obviously that's somewhat moot now. Reinstating the free bulky rubbish collection would be a helpful move in terms of taking things to the tip and cutting down on fly tipping (although around me this does seem to have dropped quite a bit with the LTN introduction).
I went to Dunelm for the first time after moving house recently. It was just two buses. Of course I had to restrict what I bought to just what I could carry, but that wasn't a bad thing! I had a 30l backpack and a folding shopping bag and got everything I needed in there.
Yes, well, I like getting out of the house as much as anyone if I'm not at work, & bus travel with 2 buses for over an hour each way & a 10-15 min walk at the other end to get in & then out of the retail park might be worth it if I can get all sorts of other things too or absolutely need to see something before I buy it, but that's all unlikely sadly & I'm liable to overspend to make the journey seem worthwhile. My time has worth to me as do my bus fare costs, & as one can rarely get anyone in a shop to.pick up the phone these days in a few mins, or even at all, to tell you if they have sufficient quantity in stock of what you might need, it's an ever increasing conundrum - in person or online shopping choices that sends people on line.
High business rates & lack of footfall force specialist shops to close. It's 2 buses or a more costly tube ride to Oxford Circus to the nearest haberdashery!
Even the Edmonton Ikea closed citing not enough footfall, but I'm not surprised at that considering the bus journey time was increasing amid traffic on too narrow streets & the frequency in the evening timetable was lessening - a real disincentive with a trolley bag crammed with heavy awkward flat packs, & not to mention that their checkout queues ALWAYS took the same ridiculous time whatever time of day you went as they made poor choices with staffing.
It's nuts but if I can order a pack of 100 curtain gliders in a few mins online, free delivery, I'm going to do that rather than traipse to Dunelm taking 3 hours & risk them only having 5 packs of 10 in stock or whatever. (Ordering click & collect is helpful though.)
The only way to reduce and eventually stop petro chemical vehicle use is to put a temp stop on driving schools, ban private and some commercial vehicles, invest massively in public transport and work out a way to manufacture and sell fully electric vehicles cheaply. As for investing in public transport, have you seen the dire financial difficulties that TFL are currently in. I can't see any of the above happening for at least a decade or more. For those that truly believe they can save the planet may I suggest this. Stop flying for leisure and for business. Stop buying goods and services from Amazon and the like, and if you're fit enough buy a bike. Otherwise the only thing that these LTNs are going to increase is congestion and the raising of C02 and associated particulates, and the general stress levels of those that have to drive for work, or use taxis due to health issues. End of. I raise Amazon as most of the junk we as a society buy from them is manufactured in China. A country that is building coal fired power stations at a rate the world has never seen.
Doodle — Completely agree, especially on the need for public transport investment. As a non-driver I rely on buses and Overground (when fit enough), but currently need cabs for health reasons, something that’s got far worse since the advent of LTNs has added such congestion and increased waiting times.
It's been reported that the Bruce Grove (N17) LTN is being removed. If that's the case, then expect most of the other LTN's to be removed as well over the coming weeks.
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