Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Just saw Steve Coogan with Catherine West at Wood Green
Oddly, it really seemed like he was in character. He kind of plays himself.
Lost my vote anyway.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Philip on
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Don't think you've really spent much time reading up on the bedroom tax. These are not 'under occupied' housing. They are just spare bedrooms. Council flats are generally built with three bedrooms so when one is emptly there is no available two bedroom flat to move to so people either have to do without or move, which often means moving out of the neighbourhood. Many people in Tottenham have had to move and then have all the hassle of finding a new place and then getting their kids to school in Haringey every day. It hasn't saved a penny and is a vindictive and nasty piece of class hatred. It is also a by product of the 'right to buy' which has seen one third of Haringey council housing sold off and not replaced. Many of these end up in the portfolios of private landlords who then get fat on housing benefit, which of course WE have to pay for.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I never had you figured for a right-winger FPR. You are arguing that the bedroom tax is in principle a good thing. Phillip has pointed out that in application it is a very bad thing.
You missed Tom Watson and Catherine West was council leader of the year in 2013 in Islington. She's a fabulous candidate, she has to be to go up against Lynne Featherstone.
Unfortunately the local Labour party used the bedroom tax argument in 2014 and it's just not as effective the second time around.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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I think you make good points FPR. Due to Mrs Thatcher's Right-to-Buy, our social housing stock is much depleted, with Conservatives bent on reducing it even further. Their ill-considered Right-to-Buy would apply to Housing Associations, who are trying to do the right thing. This, despite the need: largely unmet and sometimes greater without, than within.
Those who might toss around "bedroom tax" too easily forget that a few of those currently not housed, are in greater need than some of those currently accommodated. Labour used to champion the least advantaged in society, but no more.
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Outside of London, where there aren't one bedroom flats, this isn't working. It's just cruel. In principle making the most of your housing stock is right, in practice it's not.
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Two wrongs don't make a right!
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In principle making the most of your housing stock is right, in practice it's not.
John, you may need to 'unpack' this for me please and possibly others. I think you'd accept that the quantity of social housing stock is limited (always); how can it ever be right not to make the most of it?
i.e. manage it efficiently so as to do the greatest good for the greatest number?
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Permalink Reply by Lesley G on
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So what's your solution then? Compulsory lodgers in council tenants' box rooms?
You do realise, that in the majority of areas, there aren't any 1 bed council flats for people to move into. They can't somehow get rid of their spare room, so they are 'fined'. And like virtually all of the Tory-LibDem policies, the poorest in society are penalised (i.e. shat on).
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Arranging a swap where possible and wanted is of course a good idea. The problem is for a lot of people it ISN'T possible. As John M said, the supply of smaller accommodation outside London is small (there is some very good research my Shelter if you fancy a Google) so there simply isn't the accommodation to swap down to. This has lead to thousands being in rent arrears because their benefit has been reduced and consequently the number of evictions for rent arrears has shot up (again you can see the numbers from Shelter.) Those people then have to be placed in local authority temporary accommodation if they fall within vulnerability criteria (families with children, older people, people who are unwell and so on) which is expensive. So the net gain in any savings in benefits in offset by the cost of temporary accommodation.
Quite apart from the financial sums not adding up there is an unpleasant social and political undertone to this whole thing. Why are tenants of social housing seen as people who are less worthy of a secure home, in neighbourhoods where they have families and friends, than those fortunate enough to have the money to buy a property?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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You asked: "Since when was letting people stay in under occupied social housing a good idea ...?"
To repeat an old allegory I'm fond of, let's imagine we're the "blind men around the elephant."
Put aside a little time, and try a search engine. Put your search into a question form which which seeks to explore different sides of this argument. (E.g "bedroom tax good or bad?")
I found a number of blogs which defended the Bedroom Tax but admitted its flaws. For example, saying it was a good idea which was poorly executed; or as good in theory but wrong in fact. Although as you seem to start from the position that the Bedroom Tax is inherently a good thing, try these for balance.
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Maybe using a real example from my own life might be illuminating if the benefit rules are applied
After 21 years in our council house, all the kids had flown the coop. My parents would have then had to move to a 1 bed flat to avoid losing benefit
Then my Dad became ill and had to have a separate bedroom to have dialysis. They would move again to a 2 bed.
Then my Dad died so my Mum would have to move again to a 1 bed..
Then my Mum found it hard to cope by herself so my sister went to live with her, needing another move to a 2 bed place.
Then my Mum died so my sister had to move to a 1 bed flat
Fortunately my parents were council tenant before the rules all changed so didn't have to go through this, but if they were their life changes would have meant moving 5 times, all the time ecoming older and more frail, and that would be if the accommodation was available.
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Permalink Reply by Norah Borough on
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We need to start thinking of houses as homes and not cash cows. My 68 year old neighbour who lived with her mum all of her life in the same flat and cared for her until she died last year aged 101. Within 3 months whilst my neighbour was still grieving for her mum and in ill health herself my lovely neighbour was pressured out of her life long home into a grotty, tiny 1 bedroom flat away from the people she knew, away from her neighbours and friends and is now very isolated and depressed. It's a sad story. So cruel.
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