Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Je suis Charlie
46 million results for Je suis Charlie.
(inspired by the memorable scene in the 1960 film Spartacus)
Et je suis Charlie, aussi.
Tags for Forum Posts: I'm Spartacus, Je suis Ahmed, Je suis Charlie
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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I prefer Will Selfs take it all ...
http://www.channel4.com/news/will-self-martin-rowson-cartoon-charli...
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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FPR thanks for the link. I watched the interview with Will Self. The first part contained canards.
It is easy to agree with Self that rights come with responsibilities. In this context, that means you don't have the right to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre (unless there is a fire).
Due to libel and slander laws, we all know that there are "limits to free speech". But that isn't really the point in question.
His real thesis was that satire should only assault those [currently] in power. However, a few moment's reflection reveal the proposition as facile.
Most of us lack power, but Self fails to acknowledge that power can change hands over time. In particular, he fails to distinguish amongst the [currently] powerless.
He made no distinction between, say, a rough sleeper, who may well be powerless but significantly, is likely to have no ability or ambition for power, on the one hand, and on the other hand, small extremist people and groups (usually political or religious etc.) who currently have no power, but are particularly keen on gaining and holding power, or imposing their will. But because they don't have power (currently) presumably according to Will Self, they should not be the subject of satire (?!).
Conversely, the armed forces of the West and the Soviet Union were undeniably powerful and succeeded in crushing fascism. Should they be – then or now – the subject of satire?
IMO, it is desirable to distinguish between offending and being offensive but I'm still a fan of the famous maxim on free speech attributed to Voltaire.
I'll resist the temptation to satirise the title of a Professor of "Contemporary Thought".
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Funnily we hammered this one out tonight and came to similar conclusions Clive , I've done a 180, Islam as a religion is a massively powerful beast, no other meta philosophy that I know of is growing as fast. It has many state actors supporting it as well as a systematic process of educational indoctrination. On top of that anyone with an Ak47 and supported by organised team is in a position of power.
PS max, no one here is advocating killing anyone, just a discussion over the use of offensive satire.
Ju Suis Charlie
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Bienvenue, FPR!
Also, Je suis Ahmed:
The killing of the Muslim policeman was at least as despicable as the other murders. He was on duty and had nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo. He was wounded, he lay on the pavement, he begged for his life. His life was ended with as much thought as one might swat a fly. These were intensely evil actions (as Will Self acknowledged).
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Perhaps an analogy would the wars fought to defend Christianity in the Middle Ages. While many of the foot soldiers may have thought that was exactly what they were doing, and so signed up in their thousands, the ones financing and leading did so to gain land and power and used religion as a badge to legitimise their actions as a crusade
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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" On top of that anyone with an Ak47 and supported by organised team is in a position of power. "
Excellent example, FPR, of confusing Islam with terrorism. If I had an AK47 I would be in a position of power but I'm a Christian.
Please give it a bit more thought.
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You've lost me on that one John, think you need to give it a bit more thought. You quote a line with no mention of Islam, so how can there be any confusion ?
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OK here's the complete quote.
" Islam as a religion is a massively powerful beast, no other meta philosophy that I know of is growing as fast. It has many state actors supporting it as well as a systematic process of educational indoctrination. On top of that anyone with an Ak47 and supported by organised team is in a position of power. "
If you're not associating Islam with terrorism, what does " on top of that " mean ?
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Max, I'd be interested to know where you got the data that suggests that the extremists have a lot of support and that some moderate Muslims believe that you get what's coming to if you offend.
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John D .... I mean - Also; as well as; another arguement worth considering etc.
Anyone with an Ak47 that can chose whether people live or die is in a powerful position, right ?
Good luck untwisting those knickers x
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