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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Hi there, 

I am new to London, new to England in fact. I am from New Zealand but my Great Grandparents lived in Tottenham (Sherringham Ave) so I thought I would check out the area. Personally, I thought it could do with a bit of a spruce up and was delighted to see that there are now plans (not sure if totally committed yet?) to heavily invest in the area. 

This got me thinking that it could potentially be a place to buy a house and settle in for a while - housing in the area seems considerably cheaper than other London areas and if this investment comes to fruition then prices may well rise.

I thought I would get the locals view on where they think the best place would be to buy within the area that has the planned investment (Northumberland Park, Tottenham Hale, Seven Sisters, Tottenham Green). Being relatively young and from NZ (where my NZ $ buys peanuts over here) I need something on the cheaper side but I will do a lot of DIY to get the place up to scratch - so the area is really the most important part for me right now. 

Any help would be appreciated so I can concentrate my effort and hopefully find that rough diamond!!  

Tags for Forum Posts: house, housing market, investment, tottenham

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I was at Cakes and Shakes earlier today - delicious!  With this place and El Botellon moving in recently, this little neglected strip has already been somewhat transformed. Let's hope some of the neglected units there attract similar businesses.  

Where is cakes and shakes? I haven't seen that. I will definitely give El Botellon a go the next time we are out.

Cakes and Shakes is the new place with bright blue signage further up on the east side of the High rd from El Botellon. It is a small chain or franchise (?) and has only just opened its doors after several weeks of works. I don't know if the signage meets design policy guidelines for the Conservation area which should not allow back lit plastic!

This is a parade of shops opposite CHENEL, and next to Tottenham Green, that has had quite a few of its units empty for some years! They knocked down a pub (yes!!!!) and older buildings in the conservation area, to make way for this non-descript block of flats. See more on our disappearing pubs here.

http://tottenham-summerhillroad.com/old_pubs_of_tottenham.htm

I haven't been there yet. Lets hope it provides good products and service which our area needs. Hopefully they won't clutter the shopfront with trash postings like many of the shops in the area. It is good that another of those units has been opened bringing more activity to the area.  One of the shops next door sells lovely african cloth but recently sublet to a counter selling electronic items you find everywhere. This is fine if it weren't that they've just completly "brought down" the standard for the frontages on this modern parade with all the crap they put their window display.

The store/grocery on the corner of the parade was made to alter their signage retrospectively to conform a bit more to the shopfront guidelines that you can find on Haringey's website. These are quite specific and in theory should mean we get quality shop fronts in the Tottenahm. However the council is LAX and allows loads of retrospective crap.

Look at this for the shops next to Costa at 261 High Rd.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/Applica...

There is now a retrospective application to keep the crap frontages that DO NOT conform to the original planning permission granted! See here...

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/Applica....

So we get new crap replacing old crap . It is a story repeated up and down Tottenham unfortunately.

The old Botany Bay pub on the corner of Philip Lane and Lawrence rd, now a quite a good Turkish grocery is another case in point.

What has our council been doing about getting this illegal shop destruction restored?

I've only just seen this. You ratbag. Try coming over here in 2007 when it was more than three dollars to the pound! Outrageous whining. No wonder you have to say you're a New Zealander, anyone would think you're Australian.

I moved here in 2007 and I don't recall the exchange rate being that bad!

Thank goodness for it being better now anyway. I was able to transfer some money in January at a very good rate. And I've just had an offer accepted on a flat near Seven Sisters. Finally putting down roots! And this forum has helped me to get quite excited about the area.

We need help! Apparently someone in Haringey Council has described Tottenham as a war zone! Maybe it is because it is being invaded by commercial signage. As steps are taken forward (e.g Bruce Grove Railway bridge) many, many more steps are being taken backwards. Over many months but at an accelerating pace, over 30 shops in Tottenham have erected new signage. Almost all of this signage was crude, overwhelming advertising for either Lebara  or Lycamobile phone services and for Western Union money services. Apart from the shops along West Green road the other shops are all in the conservation areas included in the Tottenham Historic Corridor!
 
Tottenham's Historic Corridor is being steadily undermined by unsympathetic alterations and piecemeal development destroying the historic fabric of the area. It is an  EXISTING (i.e. doesn't need new building) significant asset that could be exploited in the ongoing efforts to improve the livelihoods of people who live here.

See the evidence here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/jjwilliam/sets/72157645221406988/

Why is this being allowed to happen? Why are the shop owners actually helping to drive the area down even more by increasing negative perception through this awful proliferation of advertising  disguising itself as shop signage? In Leytonstone, the High rd now makes the place look like a nice area to live in - perception is important! The actual shops haven't changed, just their signage. Along the High Rd in Tottenham the place is getting worse by the day. Radical measures are needed to remedy this and the way to do this is through a massive boost to the council services like frontline operatives, social services, planning enforcement officers, etc. to counter the effects of economic deprivation in the short run while the larger capital investment takes the 20 years it will take to kick in. Present residents and businesses need help, support and guidance NOW! If it is a war zone then bring in the cavalry!

These would all have needed planning permission, no?

We don't know why our area was described as a "War Zone" by a senior officer on the bus tour for new councillors. Initially I was angry and offended. But on reflection I am now simply curious. In a few days I'll be writing to ask what was in her mind when she made that remark.

But, JJ, though I try not to make any assumptions, I very much doubt whether it had anything to do with the signage on shopfronts or display in the windows or inside the stores.

If you have a couple of hours, JJ, perhaps, you'd agree to join me and a couple of other locals on a stroll along part of the High Road. We can compare our perceptions and tastes, and ask some of the traders.

As a footnote, HoL members may not know that after the Tottenham riot in 2011, Business in the Community seconded Kay Horne - a bright, knowledgeable store manager from Sainsbury's in Waltham Cross as a "Business Connector".  Kay poured her apparently endless enthusiasm and energy into the job of helping get businesses back up and running.  Most importantly this included businesses talking and learning from one another. 

As far as I know, Haringey didn't do one important thing they could and should have done - to make a full and careful record of Kay's work and the learning which arose from it.

Sadly, that's NFH.

Apologies. I'm now reliably told that Lyn Garner did not use the term on the bus tour but in the gathering of LibDem and Labour councillors who went on the tour. I haven't yet written to her as I'm told she is currently on holiday.

Jean-Jacques, your link to the gallery of Walthamstow shopfronts is great.  Similar work was done in parts of Tottenham High Road using a combination of mainly external funding. One of the buildings refurbished was Windsor Parade which won Haringey an award.  As I recall the inspiration for doing it came from a visit paid by Haringey staff to Wood Grange Road, Newham.

Where did Haringey lose the plot? Sinice he regenrartion efforts have started their haev been improvemenets to individual areas liethe Green and plans ongoing for the Holcombe market but generally shops frontages have been getting worse through the spending that shop keepers ARE DOING!

One prominent shop on the High Rd in Bruce Grove has actually ripped out the canvas awning because it was damaged by winds and they have now applied for retrospective planning permission saying that they had to quickly install a metal replacement with all that it implied in terms of installation process. It is  poorly executed, hangs over the public highway, is not in keeping with shopfront guidelines and certainly not with conswervation area ones. The usual cock and bull stories abound. My heart sinks at the continuous loss of the traditional shop fronts. I am in no way stuck on twee shop fronts only. It's just that people talk about how the place LOOKS. And it influences their perceptions especially when they don't know the area. It is no sense building new places only to end up with the same crap shop fronts!

How did Newham they do it, JJ?  I haven't had time to check, but in 2012 both The Guardian and the Daily Mail gave a figure of £475,000 mainly from a Government grant, but also with money from Waltham Forest Council. The Mail quoted the then Leader of  Waltham Forest. "This stretch of Leyton is a gateway to the [Olympic] Games. It will be on display to the world in July and we want our streets, homes and businesses to do us proud. This was a fantastic opportunity to smarten up Leyton."

A couple of traders quoted by the Mail said that business was picking up. But two local residents sitting outside one of the spruced-up cafes in Leyton made the very sensible point that:

"This isn't free, whatever some people think. We taxpayers have paid for it all – and it's up to the shopkeepers now to do their bit.  It is nicer now, keep it that way." 

Which raises a number of questions including - as always - who benefits? (Cui bono). Comments under the Mail article include readers asking whether public money should have been spent on "regenerating" the premises of a fast food chain and a pawnbroker. Another comment challenged the landlords who, they said, were a "greedy shower" who "just take, take, take".  There was also someone with what I see as a common fantasy about bringing everything back the way it used to be, with : "... all the old shops, ironmongers, butchers, bakers, haberdasheries. Life was so much better with the smaller businesses".

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