Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
If you missed Open House in Haringey...
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I have to say, it's so depressing seeing the neglect and waste of space that could be made available for the public good, both at AP and the Town Hall. Let's hope the Town Hall, at least has a future.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I have to say I agree with you John. I felt quite emotional after leaving the theatre that we don't have this wonderful old Victorian stage working and living.
Heritage places are no good if they are museum pieces to be stared at once a year. Theatres should be working and ringing with applause. I wish the friends all the best in their efforts at preservation but I would so like to see such places bringing in the crowds again
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Agree. This should be brought back into use.
I once asked a previous general manager of AP, what, in an ideal world, he would like to see happen to the theatre. Answer: "rehearsal space". That was the absolute maximum extent of the vision and to be fair, probably reflects/ed most council officers' viewpoints.
The entire building is seen through the prism of municipal procedures. It has always been obstacles that are seen rather than possibilities. e.g. the cost of fire escapes etc. and not the massive tourist potential. And it will stay this way until the iron grip of municipal-political control is relaxed. The smallest start in the direction, would be to have independent Trustees on the Board of our Charity.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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In general I cannot believe how badly the Palace is being treated, even vandalised. The neglect I saw was beyond belief and truely embarassing. A council cannot run such a place and nor should it. It cannot fund it either. Maybe a larger body such as The GLA should fund it.
Reading the history of the Palace was very interesting. It was a private development in the first place and failed from the beginning. Far too ambitious. We are lucky to have this 200 acre park and building but there needs to be a complete re-think as to what it's used for and how it's funded. The park of course needs to stay public but the building I think does need to be leased for commercial development but with specified uses, over seen by a local Trust made up of local people and some GLA members.
Keep the ice rink, keep the conference/music area with capacity for 10,000.
Bring in cafes, restaurants, some shops, each a small hotel. The Palace needs serious structural investment and unless there is commercial potential this isn't going to happen.
The Theatre was used as storage space by the BBC for decades. So not even they could be bothered using it for events or filming. It's a beautiful theatre and should be brought back into use for the public, not just a small band of 'Friends' and local well known actors.
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Although the GLA could well have a say in the running of a future AP, it shouldn't go back to the mega-muncipal body. The former Trustee was the GLC who passed it to our careless council back in 1980 - handing it back to the GLC's successor would be a retrograde move, IMO.
Haringey had the bad luck of the fire, also in 1980, but since then there have been 29 years of wasted opportunity. The waste of money has been truly prodigious: a figure of £100m was mentioned in parliament about five years ago as to the public funds used up. How little we have to show for such a sum of our money.
I think there should be significant commercial involvement but that does not mean giving the whole building to a property developer, like Firoka, as the council wanted to do.
The BBC began regular "high definition" TV broadcasts in the opposite corner of the building on 2 November 1936 – the studios and tower were purposed-built and this part is known as the birthplace of television – in the world. So the BBC do have an interest. Plus, the BBC actually do use the theatre occasionally for filming. But even if they wanted to use it full time, it is likely that they would find the AP management difficult, obstructive and unco-operative as many operators, leaseholders and organisers have found to their frustration.
Two council-commissioned independent investigations spoke of "governance problems" which is true, but imprecise.
Absolutely the theatre should be brought back into use for the public. But nothing like this will happen without the council-dominated Trust Board authorising it. The council's fundamentally flawed 15-year old "Development Strategy" has still not been abandoned, much less renounced. Paradoxically and belying it name, this strategy has frustrated all attempts to improve the Palace.
The theatre is not used by a small exclusive band of Friends – they are the only group who prevents the council forgetting about the theatre altogether. Nothing will change or improve while the council controls everything.
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Don't forget the nice theatre in Hornsey Town Hall, which is used to store office furniture at the moment.
To be honest, the AP theatre is badly designed from the point of view of sightlines etc. I believe the architect had never done a theatre before.
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I was staggered when I realized that our Borough possessed not one but two large theatres, hidden away from view by the council for so long.
The HTH theatre originally had 1,200 seats (for smaller 1930's-sized bottoms) and I believe the AP theatre once accommodated 2,000 (?).
The AP theatre isn't an ideal theatre. The sound isn't good, but that drawback is probably nothing that good sound engineers couldn't rectify, given the means and the will. The theatre is not as remarkable as the stage and especially the areas above and below the stage, which so impressed English Heritage.
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Permalink Reply by M on
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I don't want to discourage anyone's enthusiasm for theatres, but I think there's an ambiguity in these posts. As (I think) is apparent from posters' comments, it's a real challenge to bring older theatres--particularly of the size built in the late Victorian period and early 20th century--back into use as working theatres today (and particularly those located outside central London). These were built for a theatre economy that no longer exists and on a physical scale which would be difficult to fill nowadays, outside of occasional performances. And, as I think that John's and Clive's posts point toward, there were a lot of theatre spaces built that didn't work very well in their own time, let alone ours. Theatres are very expensive to keep in consistent use and our contemporary patterns of spectatorship--including how audiences expect to be able to access venues via transport--are enormously different from those at the time these venues were built. I don't have a view on what the council should or shouldn't do, but finding ways to use old theatre spaces productively (whether as theatres or as something else) is a challenge that has proven great for a lot of people, in a lot of places beyond Haringey (and the United Kingdom for that matter). All of these are interesting issues, if difficult to resolve.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Reference the Bernie Grant Centre. A beautifully designed new purpose-built arts centre that is struggling to survive by all acoounts. Obviously us peasants over on the scruffy Tottenham side are resistant to the lure of The Arts, but I do doubt that any full-sized theatre away from Central London would be viable as a theatre only.
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In case anybody doesn't know it - check out the Artsdepot in Finchley
http://www.artsdepot.co.uk/
Seems to be doing quite well.
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> Ed: Regards Ed'd link here's a couple of more direct links to the plans for Hornsey Town Hall
(1). Future plans
(2). Press release (more detailed) with phased funding proposals.
> John: The artdepot looks great and is an excellent example of what can be achieved. Being outside of central London doesn't appear to have affected their continuing success.
A multi use space is obviously important and therefore bringing the theatre back to life at Ally Pally needs to be part of a muilt-use approach and a wider plan.
Incidently, the Palace's Board of Trustees are now asking neighbours, campaign groups, ice rink customers, plus concert and exhibition organisers, how they want to see Ally Pally prosper, and how it should be run.
Rebecca Kane, managing director of the Palace's commercial arm, added: "Urgent reform is required to halt years of decay at Alexandra Palace, transform it into a thriving events venue and recognise its importance as a local amenity.
"This review is the key to unlocking the enormous potential Alexandra Palace has to offer for future generations."
For more information call Amanda Sears on 020 8365 4366 or e-mail amanda.sears@alexandrapalace.com.
Details of the review will also be posted on a new community page at www.alexandrapalace.com
The website has had an overhaul which is good. On the services front however the management need to set up new initiatives properly (e.g. the much advertised new soft play area which consists of a couple of inflateable slides set in the horrible foyer to the ice rink is not what one imagines it should have been).
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I went to the Arts Depot for the first time last week. It's big and busy and impressive.
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