HGVs - Enforcement of the weight limit on Wightman and ladder roads

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Permalink Reply by Burgoyne Bec on February 1, 2013 at 15:07

Many, many thanks! It feels like we are getting somewhere, finally.

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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on February 3, 2013 at 14:55

And now that my fellow posters have stooped to the grubby level of loading Karen with promises of 2014 votes for instant HGV fines on Wightman, let me promise that if Gina Lollobrigida can arrange an effingham-style paving of mid-Wightman footways I shall give up my 3rd millennium LibDem voting habits and return to her ample electoral bosom by May'14.  We all have our price.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on February 3, 2013 at 17:52

Actually, as someone who is desperate to vote for the Labour Party if they'll put up half decent candidates I feel I've really gone out on a limb, they could put up three good candidates (unlikely) but I'd keep my promise. I feel that Karen would have had to do half that much work to get that comment from me if she was in the Labour Party so she completely deserves it.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on February 3, 2013 at 21:27

Just for information, no Haringey Labour Party candidates have yet been approved by the Borough's two Constituency Parties, let alone selected as candidates for particular wards.

Later this year the party will commence the long, careful and scrupulously fair selection process. In Harringay - and other wards - branch members will meet to longlist, shortlist and then select candidates from among all the talented, dynamic, hard-working, imaginative, cat-owning, bicycling, farmers' market attending [insert desirable further qualities here ] people approved.

By coincidence, this afternoon I recalled a comment by the late Tony Cliff. Disgracefully, he urged people visiting a polling station to take a pair of scissors; cut the string; and steal the pencil.

I hope everyone will ignore this entirely irresponsible advice and nearer the time consider their votes very carefully. But remember also that - as I type - there are still 458 days 8 hours 33 minutes and 5 seconds to go. In other words, ample time for the present sitting (and sleeping) councillors and the new candidates to demonstrate the quality of their polity.

Near the election, as a public service I plan to offer neutral and objective advice about candidates. Who's worth a stroll to the poll?

(Tottenham Hale ward councillor 1998-2014)

P.S. Election count-down clock on Mr Mustard's website.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on February 4, 2013 at 10:07

"the party will commence the long, careful and scrupulously fair selection process", and I laughed and laughed and laughed. In Harringay it was anything but.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on February 4, 2013 at 17:22

John, more great news for you. I've just been forwarded an email from a Labour Party member in Muswell Hill.

Quality Control is being tightened up on future Labour candidates by having a Meet the Leader event when the Dear Kober and some of her Hornsey colleagues will address potential "Future Candidates". This will give everyone a taste of what it's like being told what to do and say; a councillor's subservient role; and how to engage the community in doing what's already been decided is good for us.

Permalink Reply by timh on February 4, 2013 at 15:35

Could we ask the council for a whistle blower type hotline email address.  That way we could take photos of lorries using the ladder roads and email them to the concil.  They would n't be admissable in court, but the council could then write to the firms involved and warn them against using the ladder roads ! 

Do we know if any of the lorries caught using WIghtman road were fined ?

Also, was there any enforcement of lorries turning up the ladder roads from Green Lanes ?

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on February 4, 2013 at 16:06

An interesting idea, Tim. But let me also suggest a possible alternative which already exists.

FixMyStreet.com is a free website on which anyone can post about problems such as graffiti, fly tipping, and broken paving slabs. People also use it to report pavement parking. It has some advantages over Haringey's current and actually rather good Report-a-Problem pages.

FixMyStreet lets you post a photo - which the Haringey site doesn't yet do. You can locate the problem on a street map - which Haringey's page lets you do for some problems. But the biggest difference is that FixMyStreet shows your report and everyone else's reports on the street maps.

So it seems to me that - used carefully - it would provide a fair and accurate record of vehicles breaching the limits along your and other Ladder roads, and the times they do this. The companies, council officers and your neighbours would be able to see the size of the problem, repeat offenders and any patterns.

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Permalink Reply by timh on February 4, 2013 at 16:13

Sounds like a great idea Alan..... let's get reporting ! 

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Permalink Reply by Bulent Ozlem on February 4, 2013 at 17:32

yeap good idea!

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Permalink Reply by Bulent Ozlem on February 4, 2013 at 17:37

Hi,

Just wanted to add my input to the problem.

I have been complaining to the council about HGV and speed humps for over two years now.

Here is an email response from John Mcqueen.

"

Dear Mr Ozlem,

 

Thank you for enquiry on the 10^th February 2011 regarding the possibility of repositioning a speed hump outside your property.

I sympathise with your concerns regarding the vibration experienced as some motorists travel over the speed hump outside your property.

 

Unfortunately we do not intend to move the road hump outside your property at this time. The existing road humps in the ladder roads have been in place for nearly 10 years and we have had not received any professional survey reports concluding that the road humps have caused damage to properties in the area. As stated in my earlier correspondence our funding is limited to areas where there are known accident problems therefore limiting our department’s ability to deal with resident requests at non-accident locations. In future years when Mattison Road is resurfaced the existing road humps will be replaced with sinusoidal style road humps which offer cyclists more comfort while reducing noise and vibration when heavy vehicles pass over them.

 

It’s common for cracks to appear in properties especially at this time of year when it begins to become warmer after a cold winter. There are many considerations to take into account in order to conclude the cause of cracking or subsidence in dwellings. The problem may have a number of causes such as, plaster failure, weather related, under ground services, trees, foundation failure. If you wish to investigate the exact cause you will need to contact a structural engineer or a survey specialist.

 

As you will appreciate we can not test every road hump that is installed in the borough, so as with the majority of other London boroughs we comply with the Department for Transport (DfT) recognised Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) trial results, national regulations and DfT traffic calming guidance to determine feature design, type, size and positioning before implementation.

TRL which is an internationally recognised centre of excellence for testing all aspects of transport carried out these trials on behalf of the Department for Transport (DfT). Their trials included all different types of vehicles travelling at different speeds over humps. They concluded that vibration caused from vehicles travelling over traffic calming features will not damage a property as long as its more than 2m from it (for London Clay soils type). I acknowledge that there is increased vibration when heavy vehicles and speeding traffic pass over humps but these scenarios were included in the trials.

There are acceptable vibration limits which are set out in the British Standard 7385 (1993) but you may find a traffic advisory leaflet 8/96 more reader friendly and this can found at www.dft.gov.uk a href="http://www.dft.gov.uk/&gt" target="_blank">http://www.dft.gov.uk/>. If you wish to carry out a ground-borne vibration test for your dwelling there are consultancies to undertake this which can be found online.

If you need more advice the department for Transport have a specialised department called Driver Information and Traffic Management Division which can be contacted by telephone on 0171 271 5185.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

John McQueen

Project Engineer

Transport Policy and Projects

London Borough of Haringey

2nd Floor South, River Park House

225 High Road

London N22 8HQ

 

Tel: 020 8489 1158   

So, is the council denying that residents have this problem?

 

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Permalink Reply by matt on February 12, 2013 at 21:01

Well done Bulent for taking this further with the council. Their answer is standard enough; quote various authorities and their 'expert' tests to justify doing nothing. Btw, here's the link for the quoted traffic advisory leaflet 8/96 entitled Road humps and ground-borne vibrations.

Straight away on page two it becomes obvious that (a) the images in the leaflet of the road hump types tested aren't clear, so how can we compare to what we have on our roads and (b) talk of the 'side ramp gradients of the wider speed cushions also appeared to influence the level of vibration generated. The steeper the ramp, the higher the vehicles will ride over the cushion, and the greater the vibration'  is the main problem we have on a number of the ladder roads, because the gradients are steep.

Drive any number of ladder roads or walk down the passage and take a look at the road humps on various roads and you'll notice that the road humps come in various widths and gradients. In other words a standard format hasn't been followed.

When these humps were installed at least two different companies were used and different crews within each company, probably accounting for the variably in build. The leaflet also points out that 'the maximum likely vibrations can be gauged by driving a heavy vehicle over a temporary profile. Any measurements should only be undertaken by persons skilled in the technique and in the interpretation of results.'

Were these checks carried out? Were these works checked for comforming to requirements for measurements, before the works were signed off?

It's the council who commissioned these works who should have made sure these checks were carried out, including reading the data. Folk should concentrate on whether or not the road hump outside their home has been built to specification.

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