Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Hewitt Road - oil slick - update
Residents asked me to follow up the issue with the speed hump/service cover and resulting loss of oil from vehicles which (having driven too fast over it) leave a trail of oil.
Here is the response. The replacement cover should fix the issue but of course the larger problem of cars speeding down our roads continues. Its an issue I will continue to address with the council.
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Your enquiry about the Statutory Undertakers service cover in Hewitt Road outside no’40 LBH/2953114
Thank you for your enquiry.
A site inspection has confirmed that the speed hump has been constructed to the correct specification and conforms to the Highways (Road Hump) Regulations 1996, which is laid down by the Department for Transport. The speed at which you approach the hump should take account of the roads layout. The Highway Code states that 'the speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds that are inappropriate for the road and traffic conditions can be dangerous'.
However, it would appear that the cause of the problem is likely to be the protruding sewer inspection chamber near the speed hump outside no’40.
We will therefore ascertain who is responsible for this cover and request that they arrange replacement for a more modern style cover that will be flush with the carriageway when installed.
Engineering Projects Team
Project Engineer
Sustainable Transport Group
London Borough of Haringey
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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You can add pedestrians to your groups at risk from the oil slick, since it continues down the road and over the the Harringay Passage crossing. Even able-bodied adult pedestrians risk going base over apex - a quote from Hugh's comment starting "The Hewitt oil", above.
"I similarly nearly came a cropper just walking across the road last year, unaware that the oil was there. It was as slippery as ice. I fear that one day soon a child or pensioner will come a cropper".
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Yes, pedestrians too. The council doesn't seem to grasp that someone could be seriously injured today.
Since all are likely to accept that any remedial work is unlikely to be started soon, I again suggest, as an interim measure, that a warning sign be erected as a matter of some urgency. Is this difficult?
There have been successful claims against the council (some, huge) over poorly maintained pavements that lead to injury. If there's any compensation claim made in respect of this site, the competence of the council inspection could be in question.
A clear warning sign might at least mitigate their (our) liability.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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No, they haven't yet got back to me, about my call on Thursday morning. Nor, as far as I know, to Cllr Karen Alexander. But please bear in mind that I wasn't sounding a "red-alert".
Gordon T has helpfully taken some photos, by the way.
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Permalink Reply by pipplypig on
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There was someone out there measuring the bump and water cover this weekend which caused great excitement in our household. I'm hoping this was someone from the council but actually thinking about it as it was a Sunday I'm guessing it was just one of us disgruntled residents. Anyone know anything?
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Yes, it was Gordon T. He took photos which I'm forwarding to the Council.
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Following up on this - with agreement from Cllr Karen Alexander, I phoned the Environment Department leaving a message for Assistant Director, Mr Graham Beattie. Gordon T (on HoL) later contacted me after taking some photos. With his agreement I posted these on Flickr and emailed Mr Beattie asking him to view them, and also giving what I hope is a fair summary of people's comments and what Gordon saw.
As you'll see, my email to Mr Beattie was sent this afternoon. A little later I received a reply from Mr Tony Kennedy. Please scroll down to see both emails. I assumed that Mr Kennedy had not seen the photos and my email so I phoned to give him the heads-up on this. Mr Kennedy assured me that he had seen my email and photos and that his opinion was unchanged. His view is that the cause of the problem is not the traffic hump; nor its proximity to the metal cover; nor the interaction between them. It's due to vehicles being driven too fast and to the metal cover needing to be laid flush with the roadway. He also said that a small number of claims had been made by drivers and that Haringey was disputing them.
In my view we have the usual brick wall. To be fair, Mr Kennedy felt - and you may agree with with him - that they've correctly identified the problem and are taking reasonable steps to solve it. Please judge for yourself.
----- Original Message -----From: Alan StantonTo: Graham Beattie, Assistant DirectorCc: Cllr Karen AlexanderSent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 3:28 PMSubject: Follow-up to Member Enquiry by Cllr Karen Alexander LBH/2953114.Dear Mr Beattie,I am writing about the problem reported by Cllr Karen Alexander regarding a speed hump, a metal cover, and regular oil leaks in the roadway outside number 40 Hewitt Road N4. With the oil extending further down Hewitt Road towards the junction with Green Lanes.On the morning of Thursday 15 May 2014 I phoned with the agreement of Cllr Alexander as she was unable to call from work. I explained the problem to [member of staff] and asked her to pass on a request for a fresh inspection of this location, with action to undertake needed works. I said that Cllr Alexander, local residents and I were concerned that action should be taken before there were serious accidents there. (Please see below about an accident last year.) Or claims are made against the Council for compensation.
Summary of the ProblemI explained to Ms Michael that it is now clear that some vehicles going over the hump are damaged and leak oil. It's likely this is due not solely to the dimensions of the hump as such, but to its proximity to and - crucially - the interaction with a metal sewer inspection cover. This interaction is damaging the roadway and the underside of vehicles, leading to regular oil leaks on the roadway.Reply to Cllr Karen AlexanderAs you will know, on 8 May 2014 Cllr Karen Alexander received a reply from the Engineering Projects Team in the Sustainable Transport Group. This referred to an inspection carried out on the hump and stated that it was "constructed to the correct specification and conforms to the Highways (Road Hump) Regulations 1996". It also said that: "it would appear that the cause of the problem is likely to be the protruding sewer inspection chamber near the speed hump outside no 40". The Project Engineer concluded that they: "will therefore ascertain who is responsible for this cover and request that they arrange replacement for a more modern style cover that will be flush with the carriageway when installed".Discussion on Harringay Online Community WebsiteCllr Alexander posted the reply in a discussion thread in Harringay Online Community website. [Link given.]As you will see, the reply was discussed online by local residents who exchanged observations and views. In addition, some residents made their own inspections at the location and suggested an alternative explanation of what was happening. This is: an interaction between the different factors - specifically: the slope of the road; the camber of the hump (side to side); and its proximity to the protruding metal cover. It became clear that the hump + slope + metal cover results in damage to the underside of some vehicles; damage to / marking of the road surface; and regular oil leaks in the roadway leading to an oil slick extending many meters down Hewitt Road. A further fact emerging in the online discussion was that last year an oil leak caused a girl to come off her bicycle and break an arm.
Since phoning your office I have been in touch with Mr Gordon Terris, a resident on another Ladder Road. He has taken some very helpful photographs which clearly show the problems. Please see the photos which, with Mr Terris' permission, are posted on Flickr: (1) http://bit.ly/1ncNJXt (2) http://bit.ly/1j67p6W (3) http://bit.ly/1k3mjjx (4) http://bit.ly/R62Rqx
They clearly show a number of factors which contribute to the interaction.
Using a long pole, two of Mr Terris' photos clearly show a longitudinal dip between the end of the hump and the rim of the inspection chamber cover. It shows scraping/scabbling marks on the roadway where the underside of vehicles has ground against the road surface. Mr Terris' other two photos show what he describes as "the extreme side-to-side camber of the road hump, thus reducing the inherent ground clearance for a four-wheeled vehicle, compared to a side-to-side level road". As well as this - in effect - lowering the centre of vehicles so they scrape on the road, a vehicle travelling over the hump will be pointing downwards towards the metal cover.
Mr Terris paced out the distance between road humps and points out that they are not evenly spaced. So it would have been possible to locate this particular hump further up the road, away from the metal cover. (Although I imagine that given the risks to pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles, it's possible that residents might prefer to be consulted on this and other options.)
Mr Terris tells me that on the road surface there is evidence of oil all the way from the metal cover to the junction with Green Lanes. This suggests that oil has become a hazard all along this road - either as a fresh spill when a vehicle hits the metal; or carried on tyres further down Hewitt Road.
To me, the photos also shows a section of roadway between the hump and the metal cover which appears patched and slightly lower than the rest of the road surface. In effect this increases the metal protrusion.
Please can you take the necessary action and respond to both me and councillor Karen Alexander.----- Original Message -----From: Tony KennedyCc: Member Enquiries; Cllr Alexander KarenSent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 3:34 PMSubject: FW: Hewitt Road, N8Dear Councillor Stanton
Your enquiry about the Statutory Undertakers service cover in Hewitt Road outside no’40
Thank you for your enquiry.
A site inspection has confirmed that the speed hump has been constructed to the correct specification and conforms to the Highways (Road Hump) Regulations 1996, which is laid down by the Department for Transport. Officers have also driven over the hump at varying speeds without grounding their vehicle. The approach speed of vehicles should take account of the road layout and it appears that some motorists are proceeding at inappropriate speeds then braking before the said hump, which results in the vehicle grounding on the other side. An inspection chamber cover located after the hump is protruding above the surface and vehicles grounding are hitting the cover which results in damage to the vehicle.
We will arrange for the cover to be reset so it is flush with the carriageway and also re-profile the section of carriageway after the humps. This should address the damage being caused to vehicles. I cannot however legislate for motorist driving inappropriately and braking before the humps.
Yours sincerely,
Tony Kennedy, Sustainable Transport Manager, Single Frontline Services
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Alan, thanks for continuing to follow this up. Looks like we will have to keep badgering the council on this one.
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Thanks Alan.
Gordon's last photo, #4, shows clearly the pronounced camber (left side of photo), i.e. the road surface falling away sharply to the gutter. Does this camber fall within specification?
The earlier photos hint at how little the chamber cover is allegedly "protruding".
With camber like this, the ironwork would need to protrude only a millimetre to rip into vehicle underbellies!
The wider the track that a vehicle has and the lower the ground clearance, the more likely oil tanks are to be torn open.
My guess is that in other roads, without Hewitt Road's perfect storm combination, inspection chamber covers built up significantly higher do not cause a problem.
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"Perfect storm" is a silly cliché to use here, Clive. I suggest you save it for something a bit stormier. This is very simply an interaction between several factors.
As often, you've missed several of the main points. Please re-read the thread quickly, walk round the block, come back, have a cup of tea; and think about what you're missing. I'll check back later.
(P.S. Like a good detective story all the clues are set out.)
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