Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Stop this graffiti
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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The Council does remove graffiti but it has to be be reported which I will do.
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
Labour candidate, Harringay ward
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Permalink Reply by Dan Smeeton on
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It's still there
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It's gone now.
I'm sure the timing with today's election is purely coincidental.
It looks like a pretty amateur repainting so the owners might have given up and done it themselves.
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Good. But I'm sure it will be back again soon. They need to actually investigate and prosecute the people doing it too.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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I do love that "No Ball Games" one. I live on a council estate (and work on council estates!). We have those signs here. Yesterday looking out of my kitchen window I saw some wee boys playing with a ball. Why not let them play?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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A few years ago there was a move by some councillors to take down the "No Ball Games" signs. It was during a time when there were initiatives on the "obesity crisis". Especially among children and young people. An entirely reasonable aim.
Although it appeared to me that at least some of the steps taken resembled the famous "Yes Minister" Politician's syllogism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism.
Who could possibly object to "wee boys playing with a ball" on a housing estate? Years ago I came across a couple of examples. One where the "goal posts" were the side external wall of someone's bedroom. And another when the children were not so wee and were climbing into balconies to retrieve footballs. Part of a wider problem. When I started using Google Maps/Google Earth I was dismayed to realise how aerial views revealed how little green space was available compared to space allocated for roadways and carparks.
"Children learn on the move". I can't remember which education expert wrote that. It's something I'm thinking about more and more as our three granddaughters grow up.
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All that's required though is for an adult (preferably a parent or guardian) to say "stop kicking that ball against the wall, go and play over there". And for lost balls, children should be taught to knock on doors and ask politely. It worked when I was a child.
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Permalink Reply by Rosamund Tomlins on
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There's a danger of the ball being thrown or kicked hard enough to break a window, not necessarily by wee boys but if bigger ones come along & do it too. Unfortunately it has to be one rule for all or it won't be fair.
A lot of council estate grounds back onto car parks & there is risk of children following their errant ball into the path of a car driving in or out. Usually, there is a park not too far away where there is room for ball games without such risk, or as with the Broad Lane estate, & Markfield estate, there are 2 large ball courts with high mesh sides close by.
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Yes, indeed. But I assume you'd also want to ask young people why they don't always feel safe or comfortable in certain neighbourhoods and spaces. The patterns are also likely to vary with gender and many other factors.
I wonder if anyone on HoL took part in a study years ago at Goldsmiths College London University? It was written up by Professor Les Back. As I recall the study involved young people being given cameras and asked to take photos of their neighbourhood "routes". Describing where and why they felt some were safe and some threatening or even dangerous.
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This is all very well, Alan, and raises another set of points entirely, but it doesn't alter why ball games are not permitted in certain areas, which was the subject of the previous comment.
You've suggested in answer to me & my point about parks and ball courts being available, that they might be differently perceived as unsafe, but it doesn't make the areas right outside their own flats, which if within a car park are distinctly unsafe, any safer by comparison.
Despite your assumption, I'm not actually someone who would be in any sort of a position to be asking directly about how young people feel about, or even risking suggesting to them that they perhaps might not be feeling safe in, the parks and ball courts, if what you're getting at is that I should be, as it seems it is.
I have plenty of chances to walk around the local area, & rarely do I see any kids and young people playing in the ball court near Rangemoor Rd & Wakefield Rd, but I do frequently at the Broad Lane flats, and the one near Elizabeth Place. I also see many playing in Markfield Park, Lordship Rec/Downhills Park, & Finsbury Park. I don't frequently see gangs of youths out and about, only the odd shady character, or 2 or 3, at dusk.I'm sure you can find this Goldsmiths research should you care to, & will indeed tell us if there are indeed any no-go areas in parks in Haringey, however the more the people for whom the recreation grounds are meant to serve stay away, the more the perceived problems may remain; so please don't put us off, unintentionally or not, using these valuable resources.
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My apologies for being unclear Rosamund. I haven't made any assumptions about what sort of person you are.
Also I agree entirely with your point that "the more the people for whom the recreation grounds are meant to serve stay away, the more the perceived problems may remain".
In a real sense, aren't we both asking similar questions? There are green spaces, playgrounds, sports facilities etc including those designed for children and young persons. Some well used; others far less so.
At the same time maybe residents are pointing out suitable but underused play spaces and asking why they are underused. Sometimes observing that instead of using these far less busy facilities, children and young people may, for example, be kicking balls too close to windows, or to parked and sometimes moving cars.
It seems, Rosamund that you rate Markfield Park and Lordship Rec/Downhills as successes. What are the factors - "ingredients" perhaps - you you think result in this success? In other words what lessons should be learned from them to maximse "pull" factors?
I'm years out of date on changes in these parks. But I do remember Markfield when it was underused and when the North East Corner was very bleak and seemed uncared for. This drastically changed for the better. And as you suggest, the increased number of users seemed to be a sign and a cause of people feeling safer and more comfortable there.
People need parks; but parks need people even more.
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