Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Help! Early Hours Noise Disturbances from local Public House
Does anybody have any advice on what courses of action are open to me in dealing with regular noise disturbances from the public house across the road from me in the early hours of the morning (typically between 12pm and 3am)?
The Public House in question has a licence to sell alcohol until 1am all days of the week except Friday and Saturdays when they have a licence until 2am. Patrons have an hours drinking up time and so this results in people not leaving the premises until 2am/3am.
The noise can take the form of loud music, shouting, singing, smoking and drinking alcohol directly outside the premises on the street. I was awoken several times yesterday evening and at around 2am I went over the public house to speak to the landlord about the noise on the street. He informed me that this was not his problem and that he would be doing nothing to resolve the situation.
I'm aware that that the council has an out of hours Enforcement Team to deal with issues of noise. Complaints have been raised historically (this has been an issue for the last couple of years since a change in ownership at the public house) with the enforcement response team, but this never seems to relate to a change in behaviour on behalf of the public house.
Anybody have any thoughts on next steps? Who should I contact? Licensing Team to get a review of their licence? Local police? Local Councillors?
Thanks
Mark
Tags for Forum Posts: noise
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by e spengler on
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For bad behaviour in the streets, you could try the 101 police non-emergency number.
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Let's not be coy...name 'em and shame 'em
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Mark, log every issue on the online complaints form to the licensing team. It's a pain but you need to be persistant and you have a record of your complaints.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/business/licensing-and-regulations/licen...
They have a duty to investigate and, when the licence comes up for renewal, must consider complaints as part of the decision whether to renew the licence.
Also, the behaviour of patrons absolutely is the licensees problem, they also have a duty under the terms of the licence so don't take any guff!
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Permalink Reply by Lauren on
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Take photographs, make recordings and log everything. Each time you speak to the proprietor log that and what he said. Be open with him and tell him that this is your course of action. This might make him start caring about whether his punters are being a nuisance. Nowadays it's the individual that holds the license, so he is personally liable and could lose his livelihood if he isn't more responsible.
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Hi Mark,
We at the Harringay Arms work very closely with both Pubwatch, where we attend regular meetings, and via messaging and social media direct messaging with other pubs in the area, to identify disruptive people in the area. This helps us eliminate troublemakers.
Our licensing times are
Sunday to Thursday : Service until 1am and closing time 1.30am
Friday and Saturday : Service until 2am and closing time 2.30am
We encourage all people to finish their drinks and move out in a quiet and orderly manner. We have signs alerting customers to exit quietly and respect the neighbours. We send staff out at regular intervals to attempt to move customers along. We are not legally allowed to forcefully move people, or engage with them physically. But let me assure you, we use whatever means we can to encourage people to move along quietly.
In addition to this, we close all doors and windows after a certain time, we lower the lights once service of alcohol has ended. We provide a service where we call taxis for our customers to move them along faster and more efficiently.
We also often use a sound meter to monitor sound decibel levels to make sure we comply with noise regulations and have had this checked independently with relation to our preset music levels.
We provide water on premises at all times for free, and encourage people to drink it. We regularly use our discretion to stop the service of alcohol to troublesome or intoxicated people and exit them from the premises before they get too unmanageable. We also offer bar snacks and will be adding further to that with a new menu shortly.
We have three members of staff, each with their own personal license, provided and paid for by the pub. This is to ensure that all our staff are well trained and experienced in protocol. I will remind you that this is not a legal requirement, but we sought to pay for it regardless, in the interest of doing the best we can to eliminate any trouble.
On occasion people are difficult to manage and evict from the premises, and that is something we deal with on a case by case basis so as not to antagonise customers who have been drinking. It can often be a delicate balance, but one we strive to get rectify on every occasion.
It is unfortunate for you, that you moved adjacent to a vibrant and much loved local pub, but we are doing everything we can and are operating within our guidelines.
I will note that you are the only person who complains and storms into the pub screaming at staff, in front of our customers and making a scene. A scene no less boisterous or alarming to our customers, than you claim to be experiencing from them. We would kindly ask that you refrain from any further outbursts aimed at staff or management. An email, a chat, a phone call is the most appropriate way to engage with us, if you want a considered and proper response. We don't tolerate abuse, from anyone, intoxicated or not. We are happy to sit down with you in a civil manner and discuss any of the steps and processes we take to ensure minimal disruption to the community.
We are a pub, we are enjoyed by a large portion of local residents who do the right thing. We are community minded, and respect everyone who respects us.
The increased aggravation you are experiencing since we took over the pub, is not through negligence or poorer and more lax management skills, it is merely that we extended the license to later than it was previously. This is perhaps the source of your angst, but it is perfectly legal and we sought this extension from council, put up ads, flyers, public notices and an ad in the local paper for anyone who wanted to lodge their opposition. After consideration, the council approved it and found no basis to reject the extension.
Please refrain from abusing our staff in the future, and if you have a complaint, please send it in writing to ben@theharringayarms.com so that we may address it. We will aim to find a solution if we are operating outside our legal boundaries.
And by all means, file your complaint with licensing. We will be happy to discuss the matter with them also.
The Harringay Arms Team
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Pretty obvious that any establishment serving alcohol till the early hours will have drunks rolling out the doors in the middle of the night. Not the pub's fault but the liberal licencing laws I'm afraid which have more to do with the wishes of the booze industry lobbyists that the well being of citizens.
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Permalink Reply by Sharon on
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I note that in his post Mark didn't identify the pub yet the landlord has responded with an excruciating personal attack. Being a victim of noise nuisance can drive even the most laid back individual half crazy so a bit of empathy would have been in order. I reckon if Mark is bothered by the noise so are his neighbours who may be afraid to speak up or feel powerless to tackle the situation. It might be an idea for him to ask them about it it and add their names to a petition.
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I like the HA and am surprised by their response.
At least it acknowledges that there is a problem, which should help Mark with his complaint to the council and hopefully the situation will be resolved so that nobody is kept awake at night.
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We take the abuse of our staff seriously, Sharon. And see that as a personal attack. We have not personally attacked Mark, we have outlined everything we do to minimise disruption and encouraged him to talk to us about it politely. We are happy to hear from anyone with complaints. Not abuse.
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Perhaps your accusation could've been dealt with privately rather than in a public forum. After all, Mark didn't disclose the identity of your establishment. I don't know the H A but I'd be reluctant to visit, not after reading Mark's post, but yours. Not great publicity for you.
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Permalink Reply by Albert Ross on
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While I dont know the details of this situation beyond what has been written here and I dont know the establishment I do have a large measure of sympathy with the pub and its staff if half of what Ben writes is true. For starters it doesnt sound like Mr Priestly has made his point privately either Sharon.
It is galling when new residents moan about something that was already there (such as the Notting Hill carnival, under a flight path, a noisy bar whatever).
Friends had a similar situation in another borough a few years ago and were eventually forced to close their establishment after a wealthy new resident eventually made their license untenable.
This is happening more and more with the unending gentrification of our city.
If you dont like it move. You have the choice. They do not. I'm coming down for a pint anyway!
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