Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic meeting Outcome
Exactly three weeks ago today, I added a post on HoL pointing out the failure to convene a traffic meeting about Harringay's traffic. Just over a week later, a meeting seems to have been hurriedly arranged at rather short notice. I'm sure the two events were linked only by coincidence.
That meeting was last night at Alexandra House on Station Road in Wood Green. I was expecting to see a handful of the locals who normally turn up for these things. However, I was surprised to find a large room with about 50 - 100 people, all apparently eager to hear of progress.
We were graciously met at the building's reception desk by traffic boss, Cllr, Mike Hakata. Joking with Mike and looking about his person, I asked him where he was hiding his magic wand. His coy and slightly embarrassed reaction rather set the tone for the evening.
The meeting began with a long and very detailed explanation about why it had taken so long to get yesterday's meeting set up. The room was then given a clear message. In a nutshell, we were given the standard explanation of the past twenty years, that doing anything about traffic on the Ladder is too difficult and that all possibilities had been deemed impractical. Cllr Hakata didn't discount that one day the Council would magically find the solution that has been so stubbornly been evading them all these decades, but for the time being the focus was moving away from reducing traffic volume and on to safety - and away from Wightman and the Ladder rung roads and on to Green Lanes. More on that in just a minute.
Below is a copy of the slide Mike showed to explain the decision to abandon traffic calming on the Ladder.
There was plenty of disgruntled reaction to the slide but surprisingly little direct dissection of it. Having said that, whilst I think most people understand the issue raised in the first point and few have any appetite for clogging up Green Lanes, one person did make the point that once again the Ladder seems to have come at the end of the queue and the bowl is empty. The resident pointed out that with all other through routes already closed off by LTNs or other traffic control blockages, of course options are now limited because traffic is now so concentrated on Green Lanes and Wightman Road.
With regards to the second point on the slide, which essentially indicates technical reasons why filtering won't work on the Ladder, I asked Mike how the filtering currently works for the two school streets. He confirmed what I thought - APNR, but he hurried to add some explanation that now eludes me about why that couldn't work on the Ladder as a whole. I didn't want to get into a pointless disagreement with Mike about that, but as I understand it the LTNs at Hammersmith and Fulham work very effectively100% by APNR, where residents' cars are registered and are excepted from penalties. Clearly it would need more research, but having rechecked my facts this morning, here's what Google AI tells us:
How They Work
Enforcement: ANPR cameras record vehicle registration numbers. Drivers without valid permits who use restricted roads as shortcuts receive fines, which can range from £60 to £130.
Access: The schemes aim to stop out-of-borough traffic from cutting through residential streets, but they do not prevent access to any location within the borough.
Permits and Exemptions:Borough Residents can travel freely through the camera points if their vehicle is registered in the borough.
Visitors to residents can be registered for access using the RingGo app or website.
Carers can apply for free exemptions if they look after residents within the zone.
Some services like Uber have a technical solution to automatically exempt their drivers during a pickup or dropoff in the zone.
Mike swept away further concerns about traffic volumes with a reassurance that those same Ladder School Streets schemes that operate so successfully with APNR are lowering not only the traffic of the streets themselves, they are also having a knock-on effect on the neighbouring streets. The message seemed almost to be that we'll have to content ourselves with that for now.
As to Green Lanes, there are some plans. Mike was at pains to underline how very expensive these plans would be and how many millions each part of the plan would cost. There was no detail on exactly what the treatment would be, but the aim is to target the safety record of the road, which Mike explained is very much the worst in the borough. What we were able to find out is that the plans would see four (or was it five) junctions being somehow remodelled to improve safety. There was no slide to show the details, but from memory, going from North to South, I think those junctions were Turnpike Lane, Frobisher/Alfoxton, Colina Road and Endymion Road.
Quite a number of people suggested that the best solution for Harringay's Green Lanes, costing a fraction of the proposed plans, would be to remove parking from the road entirely, but the room was told that there are no immediate plans to do this. It seems, for some reason he didn't explain, that whilst reducing traffic volume is seen as the key to safety elsewhere in the borough, in Harringay magic roundabouts (or was it junctions) are the trick. Cllr Hakata also seemed unable to give any reassurance that the Green Lanes plans would ensure that traffic wasn't simply displaced on the the Ladder.
Perhaps, unsurprisingly, the meeting ended in quite a fractious mood with Mike Hakata appearing to be rather testily batting away an unwelcome swarm of autumn bees.
Was I or anyone else at all reassured by last night? No, I don't think so. If anything, I left with heightened concerns about the future for our neighbourhood. This in the year before local elections tells us that they see Harringay as in the bag already, I guess.
I conclude with the cartoon I used for my recent post on this issue and somewhat retract the apologies I gave at the end of that post for my uncharacteristic pessimism.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Don
-
What a pity the council didn’t consider point 1 on the slide before closing almost all the through routes on the east side of Green Lanes with LTNs. Presumably the anticipated income from fines (highlighted here on HoL a few weeks ago) outweighed any consideration of the extra pollution, traffic jams and delays to public transport caused elsewhere by the road closures. Cllr Hakata is effectively conceding that traffic “evaporation” is a myth, but failing to proffer any solutions to the chaos the council’s policies (not just St Ann’s but the long-time Gardens closure as well) have caused for years.
We all know that GL is the heart of the problem, because Harringay’s geography, the railway barrier and GL’s role as both a major north/south trunk route and a local shopping centre funnels ever more traffic into too narrow a space, especially when side roads that would otherwise provide a safety valve are closed. In many previous threads I’ve argued that a solution needs to involve the council, TfL, the GLA and probably the DoT all working together: at the least, limit GL parking between the Arena and the Salisbury, create a northbound bus lane and bus priority at junctions, and filter/restrict/ban traffic at the GL/North Circular junction, especially in rush hours. But this requires co-ordination and probably a lot of expenditure, whereas tinkering at the edges with CCTV and flowerpots is both cheaper and, it now appears, far more lucrative for the council.
-
-
The outcome was exactly as I predicted. Not because I am a Nostradamus; but because I learned that our councillors have no power when a short closure of Warham Road was sought and rejected. Unnamed unelected bureaucrats hold all of the cards.
I reprint the pertinent part of that rejection notification - in the very least, it should serve to dissuade those who are hopeful that voting in different people or parties will make any difference whatsoever. The below makes it clear that no one will.
__
"Zena and I have been corresponding with various council officers--of increasingly high seniority--regarding your request for a Play Street. Unfortunately, they remain unconvinced that Warham Road is an appropriate location for a Play Street.
Their decision seems to be based on the concern that the closure of Warham Road would have a disproportionate impact on traffic flow, which would put the Haringey Council in breach of its network management duty. They believe that the use of alternative routes would not be sufficient to effectively manage the traffic.
The officers have pointed out that Warham Road is the only direct route from St Anns Road to the west of Green Lanes via Salisbury Road. They argue that stopping access to Wightman Road via Warham Road at this point would leave only one way out of Salisbury Road given the banned right turn at this junction, and that would be to turn left into Green Lanes. This could lead to significant traffic backing up on Salisbury Road, especially on a Sunday when people would likely be visiting Green Lanes and accessing it from Salisbury Road. Without the option of people driving up Warham Road, the officers consider it likely that the traffic could back up, potentially all the way up to St Anns Road, which already faces heavy traffic.
When we pointed out that Pemberton Road has been granted a Play Street, the officers argued that Pemberton Road and Warham Road carry out very different functions on Haringey's road network. The council's latest traffic counts show that Warham Road carries nearly double the amount of traffic that Pemberton Road does, which, council officers argue make Warham Road a substantially less viable prospect for a Play Street."
__
The above is all any one needs to be able to extrapolate why there will never be a Ladder LTN.
-
-
Mark: From the Officers’ viewpoint this makes perfect sense. The Gardens are shut; St Ann’s Road already carries masses of traffic, exacerbated by the LTN, and funnels most of it into the ridiculously narrow Harringay Road before it gets to GL; the Salisbury/Warham junction is traffic light controlled and so offers the only point where westbound traffic can cross GL directly without causing tailbacks up and down GL itself. With Wightman as the western boundary of the road system and only two crossing points over the railway, east-west journeys across the borough are fraught already, so any move to close Warham is unlikely to be agreed. It might be possible to re-plan the St Ann’s/GL junction as two-way, with a left turn into GL, and Warham is already protected by a right turn prohibition from GL, so in those circs you might perhaps have more success, but the extra traffic directed down GL from St Ann’s as a result would probably still render it unacceptable to the council.
-
Permalink Reply by Dick Harris
-
Thanks to Hugh for taking the trouble to write a coherent account of the meeting. I shall make only a couple of points:
So far as I can see, the Council has not seriously considered any measures that would reduce the total volume of traffic passing through our area.
If I understood him aright, Mr Hakata said that when the LTNs abutting West Green Road had become operational and the immediate impacts had settled down, the level of traffic on West Green Road returned to its previous level. In my view, this suggests two things:
- That the traffic which had previously been rat running through the LTN streets had evaporated (which was in fact the aim of the LTNs).
- That the volume of traffic on our through-routes always tends to rise to its capacity. Once the capacity has been reached, some drivers change their habits (either they go elsewhere or reduce their journeys),
The key question to be considered when introducing an LTN is which streets are to be recognised as primarily residential (and protected from extraneous traffic) and which are to be recognised as available to through traffic.
Extraneous traffic is any vehicle that has no business being on that street, ie any vehicle not going to or from an address in that street (or group of streets).
As Mr Hakata began by saying, we have inherited a set of roads that were not designed for present circumstances. As it has turned out, even Green Lanes, our main shopping street, has limited capacity for carrying vehicles that do not have business in the area. Until Haringey Council is in a position to recognise this and take effective action to restrict through traffic (not only on the ladder including Wightman Road but also on its commercial roads that have too little carrying capacity) there will be no end to the blight of our residential environment and the unreasonable pressures on our local businesses.
Fiddling about with junctions and introducing more and better pedestrian crossings (desirable though those things may be) will not make much difference to traffic volumes – indeed some of the Council’s proposed measures are aimed at increasing traffic flows.
This much has been clear for several years and yet no serious attempt has been made to deal with the problem of excessive traffic passing through the area. The fact that proper provision for cyclist must now be made, means I think, that the need to deter through traffic can no longer be put off.
Do Haringey councillors have the stomach and the necessary powers to deal with this?
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
© 2025 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
