Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay late opening for restaurants
Dear Hugh and all
Feel free to refer me to a previous post if this is covered already and close this one down! :-)
I noticed recently when attempting to get a soup in the early hours of the morning, that I was no longer able to. The only place on the whole of Grand Parade open for trade was McDonalds. Needless to say, I didn't go and stomped home very unhappy...
Since moving to Harringay about 5-6 years ago, I have loved on a Saturday night after coming back from town or from Salla further down at the Oak Bar on Green Lanes to go with friends for soup. This is something that people do in Turkey and in Greece - not necessarily soup, but people move on to a taverna for a quiet coffee, drink or something light to eat before returning home to bed. Needless to say, we were always as quiet as a mouse.
One of the wonderful (for me) memories of Harringay for me, is coming back from an evening out with friends, going for soup and then making our way home at the end of a perfect evening. I find it very, very sad that this can no longer happen.
Worst of all, while local businesses cannot open, McDonalds has a very unhealthy trade in the 3am burger.
I cannot wait for the Harringay Festival - it is long overdue. I am so disappointed that Harringay has lost one of its unique selling points. I realise not many people on this forum may wish to find food at 3-4am in the morning, and I don't do it that often myself, but how sad that local businesses close in favour of McDonald's - there has to be something wrong with this. Instead of having traditions born from the culture of the people who live here, instead we have a ghastly import that turns Harringay into a retail park and nothing else. No wonder there has been an increase in other types of trade.
Doubtless McDonald's will be a sponsor for the Harringay festival. Maybe other members could shed some light on what has informed this decision and hopefully it is not someone moving next to a shop and then complaining that it is open late....
Sad of Umfreville Road :-(
Alex
Feel free to refer me to a previous post if this is covered already and close this one down! :-)
I noticed recently when attempting to get a soup in the early hours of the morning, that I was no longer able to. The only place on the whole of Grand Parade open for trade was McDonalds. Needless to say, I didn't go and stomped home very unhappy...
Since moving to Harringay about 5-6 years ago, I have loved on a Saturday night after coming back from town or from Salla further down at the Oak Bar on Green Lanes to go with friends for soup. This is something that people do in Turkey and in Greece - not necessarily soup, but people move on to a taverna for a quiet coffee, drink or something light to eat before returning home to bed. Needless to say, we were always as quiet as a mouse.
One of the wonderful (for me) memories of Harringay for me, is coming back from an evening out with friends, going for soup and then making our way home at the end of a perfect evening. I find it very, very sad that this can no longer happen.
Worst of all, while local businesses cannot open, McDonalds has a very unhealthy trade in the 3am burger.
I cannot wait for the Harringay Festival - it is long overdue. I am so disappointed that Harringay has lost one of its unique selling points. I realise not many people on this forum may wish to find food at 3-4am in the morning, and I don't do it that often myself, but how sad that local businesses close in favour of McDonald's - there has to be something wrong with this. Instead of having traditions born from the culture of the people who live here, instead we have a ghastly import that turns Harringay into a retail park and nothing else. No wonder there has been an increase in other types of trade.
Doubtless McDonald's will be a sponsor for the Harringay festival. Maybe other members could shed some light on what has informed this decision and hopefully it is not someone moving next to a shop and then complaining that it is open late....
Sad of Umfreville Road :-(
Alex
Tags for Forum Posts: McDonalds, restaurants
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Maybe it's because Mcdonalds is on a commercial trading estate and the Green Lanes cafés are closer to residential dwellings. I too find it sad but if you lived above one of them maybe it would be different with all the noise etc, I don't know?
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Permalink Reply by Alex Harringay on
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Hey Birdy.
I understand about the noise and wouldn't like it myself, but then I wouldn't live above one- but I guess maybe some people don't feel they have that choice.
I'm sure you're right about the reason McDonald's can stay open, but this is a mere technicality. Surely the noise of the cars queuing with their engines on, the lights and the noise of the people outside (it's not at all pleasant there on a Saturday) must be annoying for the people who live opposite on Green Lanes and the flats next to it on the other side of the railway bridge.
I can understand the reasoning behind this change, totally, but I think it is one of those decisions that hasn't been thought through to its consequences and has had more of a bad effect on the place than a good one. The place is dead after 2am now and I have no doubt we'll see a rise in crime, soliciting, violence against lone women and antisocial behaviour as a result because people are still drawn here but no-one is around anymore.
Let's see what others think!... I doubt this will get anywhere but wanted to express my sadness about this. It is encouraging to know others have seen a difference too :-)
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Permalink Reply by Stuart on
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Definitely a loss. I remember when I moved to the area 10 years ago (and, pre-kids, was able to stay awake after 11pm), it was great having all the cafes and restaurants open late. And definitely a help in keeping crime down (along with the 24-hour shops). I suspect that the reason for the crackdown was that most places didn't actually have a 24-hour licence and, after the shoot-out and police crackdown on all the illegal cafes, the genuine restaurants etc. got caught up in the clean-up. I'd happily campaign for a few of them (within reason) to stay open later.
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I very much miss the hustle and bustle of GL after 'closing', I think it is a loss and definitely one of the reasons why I loved the place so much.
Some people forget what they did BC (before children) and it was great to wonder down the street having a falafel or meze at 4am. It is a shame that they impose so many restrictions.
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Permalink Reply by rahman on
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I dont think there is any coincidence that 24 hour opening stopped around the same time that the mobile police unit started to camp out on green lanes for about 6 months after the shoot out. Those places were open as cover for other dodgy goings on, i think, so I'm personally not bothered that they close at a normal hour.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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As Rahman suggests, I think what enabled the 24 hour places to exist were the dodgy (to say the least) activities that they covered. The places that I frequented after a night out have disappeared no doubt through lack of genuine customers. So I don't think anyone made a decision as such to stop all night opening, but that the market disappeared when the police sorted out the area.
I suspect what kept the area 'crime free' was the presence of organised crime who are not keen on too much low level crime which brings the police to the area too often.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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The council moved to have all cafe licences end at 2am (or earlier) as part of a general clean up of Green Lanes and because of the odd complaint from those living nearby.
It has definitely changed the atmosphere of Green Lanes after pub closing; like a ghost town, except for the roaring traffic, which never seems to stop. There have been a number of times recently I and others have left the Salisbury looking to settle down for a good Turkish meal ... only to remember at the last moment opening hours have changed!
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I certainly haven't forgotten life BC, it wasn't that long ago, nor what I did. I'm simply saying that a combination of the crime clean up and simple economics (keeping a place open 24 hours requires staff, heating, lighting, kitchens open) means that the 24 hour lifestyle stopped. Only big companies like McDonalds can afford such luxury.
None of the restaurants I frequented after opening hours (which weren't 'til 2 then you may recall) survived and the ones that remain, I can hardly blame if they want to shut their doors for a few hours. I don't recall it being that wonderful at 3 in the morning on GL , even wearing my beer tinted spectacles.
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Crime happens at all hours it's not restricted from 2-7 am.
I also use to argue (to my friends) that walking down a road where there were people and cafes open made it [feel] safer, it feels less safe now.
A road of inviting cafes and shops at all hours looks more appealing to a road of metal shutters ad graffiti, just my opinion of course.
Do these restrictions apply to shops or just cafes?
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I'm not disagreeing with you. As a woman, places open and accessible (at any time) make it feel safer when out.
My point was simply that many of the places that were forced to close because they were part of the crime problem and were covers for drug dealing and organised crime. They weren't open to provide p***ed up dinkies (in which I include myself) with a meze at four in the morning, which is not to say that they wouldn't serve you, of course.
Besides, there are a lot of people live in Green Lanes and maybe they weren't so sad to see the end of it. Having lived above an all night cafe, you do have quite a few broken nights of sleep, especially at the weekend. I guess the people living around the all night goings on at Agora aren't especially happy.
In the end, you've got to find someone prepared to actually stay open all night to begin the "bring back the fun at four' campaign to GL. I mean, have there been many cafes/bars that have showed an interest in doing this? Is there a big groundswell of opinion that this would benefit the area? Would there be an upsurge in low level nuisance such as noise and litter? Would there be additional costs ? Are the police happy to patrol a 24 hour culture? Would this rather attractive picture of taverna life on the strip actually happen or would it be a load of people piling in ordering a plate of chips and continuing to drink (the old way of getting a drink after hours) heavily, meaning that more staff would be needed to deal with problems that would no doubt arise?
After all British drinking patterns are different from many European countries where people may not eat until late, and where people start drinking slowly at 11 at night. British people tend to start drinking early and drink faster which means they are much drunker at 4 in the morning.
Just wondering...
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Yes, understand your points Liz regards the dodgy businesses believed to be fronts for criminal activities but as Birdy says, they'll simply be continuing that criminal activity during the daytime.
What we are missing out on are excellent and genuine restaurants like Flame Restaurant (Bingols). Didn't ever notice people in there to booze it up. On the contrary. It was a mix of London night life with everyone getting a meal and chatting away with friends. Never saw any problems there, near there or anywhere else for that matter. Certainly never saw hoards of drunken youth out of control like you apparently get in towns up and down the country.
Looks like certain folk on the LCSP/Green Lanes Strategy group got their way again, unbeknown to the rest of us.
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Many of the places still provide an exchanging booth for organised crime and it still exists at 4pm in the afternoon.
If we want to irradiate crime, we can install a 9pm curfew, but we want certain freedoms. I’m not in favour of bleaching the character of the place we all loved when we moved here.
Of course the police don’t want to patrol 24 hours a day, with respect they would like to keep patrols to a minimum, but that shouldn’t deter people using facilities in the area.
If certain cafes shut up shop, that’s their own doing due to finances, and then sure, economics rules your business.
I don’t want to recreate a European taverna type atmosphere, I want a north London mixed atmosphere where people can leave the pubs and get out of their taxis after a good night out and pour into an establishment, and enjoy the delights.
The London night-life has changed as pubs and clubs open later, folk are not down the pub at 8pm anymore, they’re going out at 11pm – perish the thought!
What about them blasted bin lorries that come at 6am in the morning, it’s city life, we don’t live in rural Shropshire. I use to love this, I no longer use these facilities at such hours down to lifestyle and children but I do not want to stop other folk experiencing 24hr Harringay.
I think it’s sad that one of Harringay’s distinctive attributes is no longer, again we’ll have to disagree Liz : )
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