Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay late opening for restaurants
Dear Hugh and all
Feel free to refer me to a previous post if this is covered already and close this one down! :-)
I noticed recently when attempting to get a soup in the early hours of the morning, that I was no longer able to. The only place on the whole of Grand Parade open for trade was McDonalds. Needless to say, I didn't go and stomped home very unhappy...
Since moving to Harringay about 5-6 years ago, I have loved on a Saturday night after coming back from town or from Salla further down at the Oak Bar on Green Lanes to go with friends for soup. This is something that people do in Turkey and in Greece - not necessarily soup, but people move on to a taverna for a quiet coffee, drink or something light to eat before returning home to bed. Needless to say, we were always as quiet as a mouse.
One of the wonderful (for me) memories of Harringay for me, is coming back from an evening out with friends, going for soup and then making our way home at the end of a perfect evening. I find it very, very sad that this can no longer happen.
Worst of all, while local businesses cannot open, McDonalds has a very unhealthy trade in the 3am burger.
I cannot wait for the Harringay Festival - it is long overdue. I am so disappointed that Harringay has lost one of its unique selling points. I realise not many people on this forum may wish to find food at 3-4am in the morning, and I don't do it that often myself, but how sad that local businesses close in favour of McDonald's - there has to be something wrong with this. Instead of having traditions born from the culture of the people who live here, instead we have a ghastly import that turns Harringay into a retail park and nothing else. No wonder there has been an increase in other types of trade.
Doubtless McDonald's will be a sponsor for the Harringay festival. Maybe other members could shed some light on what has informed this decision and hopefully it is not someone moving next to a shop and then complaining that it is open late....
Sad of Umfreville Road :-(
Alex
Feel free to refer me to a previous post if this is covered already and close this one down! :-)
I noticed recently when attempting to get a soup in the early hours of the morning, that I was no longer able to. The only place on the whole of Grand Parade open for trade was McDonalds. Needless to say, I didn't go and stomped home very unhappy...
Since moving to Harringay about 5-6 years ago, I have loved on a Saturday night after coming back from town or from Salla further down at the Oak Bar on Green Lanes to go with friends for soup. This is something that people do in Turkey and in Greece - not necessarily soup, but people move on to a taverna for a quiet coffee, drink or something light to eat before returning home to bed. Needless to say, we were always as quiet as a mouse.
One of the wonderful (for me) memories of Harringay for me, is coming back from an evening out with friends, going for soup and then making our way home at the end of a perfect evening. I find it very, very sad that this can no longer happen.
Worst of all, while local businesses cannot open, McDonalds has a very unhealthy trade in the 3am burger.
I cannot wait for the Harringay Festival - it is long overdue. I am so disappointed that Harringay has lost one of its unique selling points. I realise not many people on this forum may wish to find food at 3-4am in the morning, and I don't do it that often myself, but how sad that local businesses close in favour of McDonald's - there has to be something wrong with this. Instead of having traditions born from the culture of the people who live here, instead we have a ghastly import that turns Harringay into a retail park and nothing else. No wonder there has been an increase in other types of trade.
Doubtless McDonald's will be a sponsor for the Harringay festival. Maybe other members could shed some light on what has informed this decision and hopefully it is not someone moving next to a shop and then complaining that it is open late....
Sad of Umfreville Road :-(
Alex
Tags for Forum Posts: McDonalds, restaurants
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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When was this happening, Matt? The licensing laws changed in 2002 and the problems in Green Lanes flared up in 2003, so when did Bingol stop staying open late?
And be fair on the residents groups, there was a major gun battle on the streets, heroin was being openly dealt and large groups of men hung around the streets and beat each other up on a regular basis. There were murders, remember Ozgur?
Something had to be done and those people did it. They didn't do it to stop you having a drink in Bingols at four in the morning. The people who worked with the authorities to stop this had to be very careful as there were threats to their lives, hence the secrecy. Its a bit rich now to have a go because the 'unfortunate side effect' is that restaurants have to shut at 2.
If there is a belief that such a 24 hour culture is desirable and that there would be no problems associated with it as in the past then I suggest that people support subsequent applications for late opening on GL (as I recall B2 did with OAE) and write with their reasons to their respective residents groups asking them not to object and maybe go to a few meetings to discuss this further.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Unfortunately Liz such residents groups appose pretty much everything (like the OAE late licence), as much as I support many things that these organisations strive for I just wish it wasn't at the detriment of the ID of Harringay. We can't afford to constantly sterilise Harringay.
From memory all the incidents flared up in the day, did they not? I can honestly say the trouble I have seen on Green Lanes has been in teh day, non of it in the early hours.
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Permalink Reply by Stuart on
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The infamous shoot-out was in the middle of a Saturday afternoon (around 4pm from what I recall).
I'm with Birdy - it's not a question of whether people want to open 24-hours or whether customers want it, Liz, as I understand it there is now a blanket ban on any licence for a restaurant after 2am so demand/need is irrelevant now. The issue is that this blanket ban has prevented some very good and reputable restaurants from staying open past that hour when there clearly was the demand there. Yes, the dodgy cafes/drinking clubs had their criminal fraternities but I personally do not recall the proper restaurants (Bingol, Gaziantep etc.) having the same problem as, say, the disused furniture shop etc. (Lanes?) - and as Birdy pointed out, even if the proper restaurants were used by criminals to meet, crikey, even criminals are allowed to socialise. As long as they don't cause trouble for others (and again, in my experience, they didn't). Yup, it's definitely Harringay's loss.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Well said Bushy and besides, why should 'resident's groups' be the only place these things are discussed within? What happened to wider consultation? Council flyers through the door/ email surveying etc.
Everyone knows only a few people make these meetings regularly because it's difficult for most to get out at 7pm on a week night. And very soon a posse forms of regular faces and yes, the same issues are discussed meeting after meeting; litter, those noisey HMOs, litter, latest police stats etc. I've seen new blood turn up to residents/NW mtgs full of enthusiasm but soon they drift away. That's the way local democracy stumbles along. HoL was meant to inject some life into the process, a new way of communicating. Pity the council thus far chooses not to use this forum of 1200 residents to consult of such issues as licensing changes.
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I think you misunderstand me.
I am suggesting that if you want this 'ban' lifted then you are going to have to lobby for it. The manner in which you do it is up to you. Perhaps you should write to councillors, the local MP, the Green Lanes Strategy group and request a consutation on the process. The Harringay Charter? Perhaps working with the Civic Trust for purple flag status?
I don't think it is constructive for Alex's argument about changing the ambience of the area to have a go at people who do actually work quite hard for their communities and might find it a little hurtful to be described as a posse, heavens you'll be calling then vigilantes next.
I'm sure HOL would host a consultation, but we are no more in a position to speak for the majority despite our large membership then the resident groups.
The decision was made at a time when the police were struggling to get the area under control and perhaps times have changed and the street is ready for the 'ban' to be lifted.
If anyone feels strongly enough about it then they must start the process and garner support for it. These things need leadership, I'm afraid.
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Fair points Liz. But unfortunately it's like turning a large ship around in a rocky harbour. I'll have a chat with that lot in Flame for starters.
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I'm not disagreeing with you B2, I'm in a sense playing devils advocate and challenging the rather rosy view that we sometimes have of how it was on GL before the so called bleaching that you refer to.
In my more youthful days, I didn't actually spend my Fridays and Saturdays nights here much (when young the clubs of London seem quite fun) and my main recollection of coming home after a night out was standing in a queue in one of the supermarkets buying booze to take home. I also lived up the other end near the bridge and the restaurants I did go in after hours seemed mainly empty. I don't really remember lots of pleasantly drunk people enjoying their meze, perhaps thats just me. Even then I used to wonder how they made ends meet.
Anyway i refer you to my answer above for the rest.
I'm not stopping anyone from having fun to be honest. I have quite liberal views on that sort of thing, but perhaps those are best discussed in person.
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Thanks, its just practice:D
Look this is not the sort of thing that can easily be discussed via a forum.
The residents groups are doing a good job on the whole and we should not throw out the baby with the bath water.
If people want a change in attitude from residents groups then they need to be the residents group.
It's no use carping (and I don't include you in this B2 as you put your money where your mouth is and do go) and doing nothing.
You want late restaurant opening, you are going to need to support it through the licensing process.
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Hey, I see the dedication the residents groups put in and they do a wonderful job in the main, I was proved wrong when I questioned them twelve months ago and see what they have achieved, sometimes taking many years I do fully support them although I may not agree with their decisions all the time.
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Permalink Reply by Alex Harringay on
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Gosh. I had no idea this message would create so much discussion! I have to admit I did regret it a little bit when I went to bed and my phone kept bleeping at me - there definitely are some quick typers in Harringay :-)
I can see from this discussion that, while the blanket ban might seem a bit harsh to me, the situation is a lot more complex. I still feel Harringay has lost something of what it had, for the moment at least, but I can also now see that the thing is a lot more complex and that, in fact, if I care enough about it, I need to put my money where my mouth is...
There are a lot of very active, involved people who have responded to this. It is encouraging to know that there are people on residents groups and elsewhere who care about this. It has also shown me how lacking my own contribution to Harringay has been in comparison :0)
Thank you!
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