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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Residents, Residents Groups and Traders in the Green Lanes / Harringay Ladder area may not be aware of the handsome consultation document detailing the new Green Lanes proposals which has just been published on behalf of the Green Lanes Strategy Group.

This is available to download at:
www.haringey.gov.uk/green_lanes_scheme.

Paper copies have been produced in limited quantity and are available at Stroud Green Library, Tao Sports and Cherie Hair Salon.

Views and comments are invited and welcomed and the closing date for these is 21 June 2013. 'If no major objections are received', works are planned to start in July/August 2013 and will last 9-12 months.

Comments should be emailed to: frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk
or posted to: Frontline Consultation, London Borough of Haringey, FREEPOST NAT 20390, PO Box 264, London N22 8BR

This is the one opportunity to have a close look at all the detail and to make constructive comments.

Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, green lanes corridor, green lanes plan, green lanes strategy, harringay green lanes town centre, harringay ladder, outer London und, pocket park, town centre improvements

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On the question of where the Warham Road traffic would go, however, it should be remembered that if Hewitt's direction of traffic is reversed, some of it may be going there, instead of via the other roads such as Pemberton, which have been mentioned.

Some of it might, thats true. I'd guess most of it wouldn't though because it would have to first cross the big GL/St Anns junction so it would be much easier to just turn left into Seymour.

However, this is exactly the point about requiring a wider survey and why if Hewit is switched some of that traffic will end up going by Fairland Park. If the the only streets being monitored are the ones either side of Hewit then that Fairland Park traffic increase will go unrecorded.

Quite right. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head very well here Ant - if the only intention is to stop cars using Hewitt road to access St Anns road there is clearly going to be a significant increase to the volume of cars using both Pemberton and Fairfax Roads... both of which should provide a safe environment to the many children using Fairlands Park and going to/from South Harringay school, not to mention the childrens centre by the school. 

Why would anyone want to implement a change that will increase traffic volumes to these roads, and  significantly increase the risk to children in the area? I thought the whole point of the regeneration money/funding was to make the area a more pleasant place for people as a whole - not more dangerous? 

I've responded to the consultation - I suggest others do the same if they feel strongly about any of this.

Has anyone noticed how glorious the weather is today!
fresh air got me through parenting, it's great for your
well being.

Before I make a couple of points I should first say I am a Pemberton Resident and at the consultation in Nov I lobbied heavily for Hewit to be made a left turn only road to stop the traffic cutting across and blocking the northbound carriageway! I am all for this concept and a great deal else of what the Corridor scheme is aiming to achieve.

At the risk of repeating much of what has been said:

  • It is worth noting this is not a formal consultation. This is the plan, you can comment, but you are not being consulted- do not fool yourself, consultation happened earlier, before the Hewit reversal was mooted.
  • There is a democratic deficit here in the way this intervention has been proposed and in effect been driven through. At no point has anyone (other than perhaps those on Hewitt) been consulted with. It is still not clear to me who has known what, for how long, and why none of these discussions that affect our community have been put in the public domain so as to demonstrate some transparency. I do not feel this is the way our elected representative/council officers should act. I only found out about this from a neighbour, how can this be possible, or acceptable?
  • There is a single comment in relation to Hewit Road, traffic and the piazza in the Consultation Report (as far as I can see)- http://www.haringey.gov.uk/green_lanes_corridor_and_olf_-_consultat...
  • I am especially saddened at how divisive this is has been (I met a Hewit resident today who introduced himself as ‘The Enemy’). I am astonished at how efficiently this has fractured our community. As a result I think the only way to solve this is on a community level before we all pull up the draw bridge, plead special cases, and become Shire Nimbies!
  • There are far more effective ways of meeting the same objective.
  • It is not actually clear to me in the Corridor documents  why this is being proposed, there is no logic set out as to its impact, nor are there any analytics (which some are apparently aware of and the rest of us are not). I do not see a logical, clear, transparent decision making process in action here. Please tell me this is not normal. (As an aside I see little discussion on this tread from anyone as to the merits of any wished for impact, are there thoughts on this out there?).
  • What are the indicators that will be used to measure the success or not of any trial, and what guarantees do we have that it will not simply become the status quo?

Finally, I do not blame those of you on Hewit that want this to happen- I would too if I were you. Undoubtedly those of you on Hewit more than 12 years were shagged! I just object to the way it has all been done, I want to see the logic.

"I do not see a logical, clear, transparent decision making process in action here. Please tell me this is not normal."

I can confidently assure you, Justin, this is not normal.

There is no normal in Haringey. There's an extremely wide variation in both whether residents' views are genuinely sought; and what information they are given to assist them in building their judgements.

Some consultations are done reasonably well. Others perhaps less well but perhaps not too bad. Or at least with good intentions - even when they think a bunch of crudely leading questions constitute a survey.

Sometimes what passes for consultation is more softening-up for a sales pitch to push through a decision already stitched-up. In some cases, Down Lane Park and Pinkham Way spring to mind, the decision is so perverse that local people are forced to band together and protest loudly to prevent the damage.

On some occasions, there's a truly gross democratic deficit. This is now frequently coupled with a lack of any curiously about, let alone respect for dissenting opinions. I imagine even Michael Gove would be lost in admiration about how some councillors have apparently got away with it without widespread loathing, being deselected and/or facing richly deserved electoral defeat.

Totally agree and especially about how sad it is this is happening so divisively. And this may only worsen if the next part of the "experiment" is to flip another street to break up the four in a row. Alllison? Warham? Seymour? Who wants all that old Hewit traffic back? How much fun will it be to go to Harringay Market on Sundays to meet all the neighbours then?

Of all the people involved I am so pleased with Ian Sygrave from the LCSP with his - "never supported piecemeal tinkering with individual roads" and "Any proposed change needs thorough consultation via public meetings and informed debate, based on firm evidence from experts in the field; it should be based on clear principles as part of an overall traffic flow strategy for the area."

We need to loby all the other GLSG members to adopt that position.

I see that Barbara who is an impassioned supporter of the Hewit Road reversal (for good reason) has deleted every one of her many comments from this post. It's a shame that these comments have been deleted as it formed an important record of this debate, even if so many of us disagreed with her.

If a Hewit Road traffic flow reversal applied only to perambulators, would toys have to be thrown out on the opposite side?

Wightman Stalking Troll

Many years ago I read an apparently real news item about a government which decided its country's traffic should drive on the other side of the road.

Because this was a major and disruptive change they decided to do it in stages - starting with heavy trucks.

All this time and knowone has asked to set a meeting up
with the HRRA, apart from Pemberton, to discuss the proposal,
or discuss how it came about...it's not a conspiracy.

The only injustice is that some roads due to their locality on the ladder,
are used as bypasses or cut throughs, since one way traffic was introduced,
I wonder who campaigned for that?

Residents have been bullied online, accused, its like a Kangaroo court,
and in the background there are leaflets pitting one road against the other, is this holistic?,
humility on HoL is vacant at the moment, is there any desire for a positive outcome?,
the road reversal has been a distraction from the real consultation, and a poisoned chalace,
that's been kicked around, the only common ground here is the desire for change,
I hope this experience galvanizes residents on the ladder to bring about a positive outcome.

I'm sorry you feel tht way Matthew. But I think you are being naive if you imagined that everyone would hear about this plan for the first time at this stage in the game and just say, great, that's fine - good for you Hewit. I'm sorry too that it has proved so divisive, and like lots of others here I have said that the only way to avoid this would be to do something holistic - but anytime anyone says that they get shot down in flames and told that it will never happen and so we just need to chip away at it one street at a time - so you end up with this.

In terms of what happened all those years ago when the one way system and speed humps were introduced, I was a relative newcomer then. There was some form of consultation I think (a survey perhaps?) but I don't remember there was very little discussion about the pros and cons of the new plan. Do you remember differently? Of course there was no such thing as this site, so no opportunity to find out what others think and hear different views. I am sure if there had been the outcome may well have been different. I suppose what I am saying is that I don't think it is fair to throw the current situation back at local residents and imply that we all sat back and rubbed our hands at the thought of Hewtt's plight.

A fair comment, I do understand the people are cincerre, but I think we need to be reminded of a code of conduct, a lot of comments wouldn't occur
In public unless it was a forum, some comments should be responded to or flagged to being unacceptable.
It's preventing browsers from being encouraged to contribute, without the comeback and counter comeback.
Intended messages don't always get perceived how they were intended, I hope this is the end of the offload culture
and a return to rational discussion or view points, which is what we all want.
I've heard it said that if you aren't a little naive, you wouldn't get into politics,
otherwise there would be any hope for ideas.

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