Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey warns of Christmas congestion chaos in Green Lanes
From the Haringey website:
Haringey Council has today warned of looming traffic chaos around a Green Lanes shopping complex after two landowners failed to reach agreement on a package of improvement measures.
Since March 2008 the council has been trying to broker an agreement with Sainsbury’s and Wildmoor Properties, owners of the Arena Shopping Complex, on a number of measures to ease congestion around Williamson Road, N4, and its junction with Green Lanes.
The council has worked with TfL to secure an upgrade of traffic lights around the junction, due to start on Monday 3 November.
Sainsbury’s has also submitted a planning application designed to reconfigure traffic flow at the southern end of Williamson Road, which it manages together with Wildmoor Properties.
But following months of discussions, the two landowners are still unable to agree on the council’s main solution for easing congestion in the area.
This would involve temporarily stopping the right turn into the Arena Shopping Complex’s car park entrance closest to Green Lanes, to prevent traffic conflict between motorists entering the car park and those exiting Williamson Road onto Green Lanes.
Temporarily stopping the right turn would also enable Sainsbury’s and Wildmoor Properties to introduce a new two lane discharge from Williamson Road into Green Lanes, with left and right turn exits, which the council believes would substantially cut waiting times for motorists.
Under the council’s proposals, motorists would still be able to enter the Arena Shopping Complex’s car park from an entrance further along Williamson Road, and exit the car park from the access closest to Green Lanes.
The council is extremely concerned that there will be severe traffic congestion around the site in the run up to Christmas if the two parties fail to reach agreement on this principal measure.
Haley's comments
here
Haringey Council has today warned of looming traffic chaos around a Green Lanes shopping complex after two landowners failed to reach agreement on a package of improvement measures.
Since March 2008 the council has been trying to broker an agreement with Sainsbury’s and Wildmoor Properties, owners of the Arena Shopping Complex, on a number of measures to ease congestion around Williamson Road, N4, and its junction with Green Lanes.
The council has worked with TfL to secure an upgrade of traffic lights around the junction, due to start on Monday 3 November.
Sainsbury’s has also submitted a planning application designed to reconfigure traffic flow at the southern end of Williamson Road, which it manages together with Wildmoor Properties.
But following months of discussions, the two landowners are still unable to agree on the council’s main solution for easing congestion in the area.
This would involve temporarily stopping the right turn into the Arena Shopping Complex’s car park entrance closest to Green Lanes, to prevent traffic conflict between motorists entering the car park and those exiting Williamson Road onto Green Lanes.
Temporarily stopping the right turn would also enable Sainsbury’s and Wildmoor Properties to introduce a new two lane discharge from Williamson Road into Green Lanes, with left and right turn exits, which the council believes would substantially cut waiting times for motorists.
Under the council’s proposals, motorists would still be able to enter the Arena Shopping Complex’s car park from an entrance further along Williamson Road, and exit the car park from the access closest to Green Lanes.
The council is extremely concerned that there will be severe traffic congestion around the site in the run up to Christmas if the two parties fail to reach agreement on this principal measure.
Haley's comments
here
Tags for Forum Posts: Arena, Christmas, Sainsbury's Story, green lanes, planning, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Neat - so it's not the Council's fault for granting planning permission. It's those pesky businesses after all.
Done.
Dusted.
Well, bah humbug. Haringey, Mr Haley - not so fast; you guys must stand up and take your share of the blame too. You approved the plans.
In the meantime folks, perhaps we need a little local pressure applied to the businesses in question. Any ideas?
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Permalink Reply by alistairj on
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"looming traffic chaos"?
All this week traffic has been backed up in the evening almost as far as the Castle Climbing Centre. Its a pain to cycle past, never mind being stuck in a bus or a car...
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Permalink Reply by RuthE on
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I wonder if the two landowners are considering cycle lanes in their 'improvement measures'
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Permalink Reply by Eddie Finnegan on
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The solution is simple.
Sainsbury's open 5.30pm - 8.30am Mon-Fri, Sat 5.30pm - Midnight, Sun as usual.
The Arena opens 9.00am - 5.00pm Mon-Sat. Sun Closed
Car Parking fee: £10 per hour in either carpark.
All walking customers: £10 off their bill.
Brian Haley to police the changeover times each day.
If people are hungry enough, they'll not complain about nocturnal food shopping.
If the Arena can't prosper over 48 hrs a week, close them down.
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Permalink Reply by Cat on
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I used to do all my grocery shopping at Sainsbury's, just because it was there. Since the congestion got really bad I have instead discovered the delights of Yasar Halim and Baldwin's. I can potter down on foot and get fabulous food at a fraction of Sainsbury's prices. I eat far more fruit and vegetables now I have realised I can get a whole bagful of stuff from the Yasar Halim for the same price as just a couple of overpackaged items from Sainsbury's. And it doesn't ruin my weekend afternoons having to contend with the manifest aggression from the frustrated car drivers trying to get out of the soddin' place.
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Permalink Reply by phippsofacto on
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Haha....me too Cat! I always tried to use Baldwins, but have realised how cheap veggies and other basics are when bought locally.
I can't bear the Arena. It's not too bad for me as I usually take my motorcycle, but it still makes me red with anger that such a ridiculous expansion was approved in the first place.
This week has been insanely busy there, and coupled with the roadworks on Wightman Rd has brought the whole area to a standstill. Arrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Dear Council,
If the businesses you originally (and stupidly) granted planning persmission to are refusing to play ball, just close ALL access into Williamson Road, and see how they like that. They'll soon come round when none of their customers can get in. At all. And you would have solved the problem with people being unable to get out.
That said, you granted this permission in the first place, so don't you dare place the blame 100% at their door. You are as much at fault as anyone for not researching this properly.
Best of luck with trying to worm your way out of this one.
By the way, with all the problems around the Arena, why the hell did you think it was a good idea to let the gas board dig up Wightman Road (again!!) and set up mini traffic lights there? Are you trying to completely paralyze the whole area? Do not approve the start-up of a new problem before you have sorted out your old mess.
May the credit-crunch eat the whole sorry mess alive.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Frankly I think there will be severe traffic congestion around the site whether they do anything or not, the issue is just one of how much of whether it will be total gridlock (like last year) or partial gridlock. Surely the basic issue is that you have a shopping centre with room for 100s of cars and the only way in or out is via a road that is already very congested (Green Lanes).
I agree with Anette - this outcome was obvious from the start and Haringey should have been far more scrupulous in their decison making about the complex and what it gave permission to. I have no idea what the solution is now. I'd support charging but there is no way on earth that any of the businesses there would.
I really thought that the loss of custom would force the shops there to cooperate - I couldn't believe that anyone would sit through more than one traffic jam like that (they'd just go somewhere else). I was obviously wrong!
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Permalink Reply by Stuart on
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Let's not forget that many in Harringay opposed the original application for the Arena and the extension of Homebase. One of the things which the Arena and Homebase used as the basis for their application was that they wanted to attract all the local custom in Haringey up to Muswell Hill. They were absolutely clear about this and the fact that they were expressly trying to attract people, in cars, from far afield. And it was on that basis that the council granted planning permission. So Alison is absolutely right - it's the council that created this mess, but no surprise they're now blaming everyone (TFL, Arena, Sainsburys) but themselves. Shocking.
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Permalink Reply by CG on
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What? I think there's already a two lane discharge system from Williamson Road that's evolved, although this isn't officiated fully by the road markings. Stopping vehicles from turning right into Arena car park will make little difference as the traffic jam often extends back into Sainsburys car park (and then snakes around in that too!). It's a bunkum idea. The box junction keeping the entrance to Arena car park clear is rarely breached, and vehicles are rarely impeded on their way in to either car parks. Vehicles driving into either car park rarely impeded those exiting the complex. The problem is solely that of shifting exiting vehicles from the complex enmass. The phase timing of the lights at the Williamson and Green Lanes junction, along with the lights at Green Lanes junctions north and south of that junction are KEY to solving the problem by making sure that traffic is allowed to feed forward along Green Lanes ahead of the junction more (in both directions), while more vehicles (than currently) are held back leading up to the junction, resulting in more vehicles being able to escape the complex on each change of the lights. This would be the only way...THE ONLY WAY to thoroughly solve the problem. Messing about with the structure of the complex itself is pointless; you have to have somewhere for those exiting vehicles to go. And Green Lanes is the only place they can go, so space needs to be made for them.
But it would be some major work needed in observation of the all the junctions in the area to retime the lights slightly to have that effect. But there'e experts out there to do that. Haringey's engineers should concentrate with just that.
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