Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey refuse planning permission for triple Turkish
Just heard that Haringey has refused planning permission for turning the shop at 51 Grand Parade, currently a Polish deli, into a third section of the adjacent Turkish restaurant. This probably isn't the end of it, but at least we know that the planners are listening to objections and abiding by their own policy of retaining diverse commercial provision.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Apologies Maddy. I didn’t see your post untiI added to this one
https://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/diyarbakir-in-bid-to-g...
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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That's OK Michael - thought a new post would bring it to the attention of more people who might have missed the original thread.
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Permalink Reply by Keats Pereira on
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Rice&peas with jerk chicken and salad or kebab? Jerk it up bredrin. :-)
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Hackney on
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Is there no limit to the number of Turkish restaurants in area will support?. The council's attempt to insist on diversity will surely just b light some of the area if the alternative is that the shops Stand empty. The budget this week had mentioned of the way in which the High Street must change and even set money aside to make sure it happens
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The more there are of one type of business, the fewer people visit for other reasons. So if Green Lanes is seen as just a place for eating the incentive to visit for retail offers lessens, so shops close and yet more eating places take up vacant units. The process has to be deliberately halted to stop it spiralling out of control and one way to do that is decide on an acceptable retail/ non retail mix and enforce that policy
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Green Lanes is dying. Walk down in during the day on Monday to Friday and it’s dead. Green Lanes has turned into a night time and weekend economy. Look at High Streets that do thrive during the day - the business of Crouch End Broadway, Muswell Hill Broadway - they have a mix of shops that people want to go to to spend their money. A few more high street chains on GL would be a boon as people tend to use them and when there spend their money in adjacent businesses.
By the way it’s not my proposal, it part of Haringey’s planning guidance and Local Plan.
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This extract is taken from a survey of businesses in the Crouch End Town Centre or the period December 2016 - 2017
If you'd like to read the rest the full article is on the Crouch End Neighbourhood Forum site. I include it here because it quantifies some perceptions and misperceptions. Crouch End is not an exception, and the trend to food and beverage is very real and widespread.
"Much remained the same – the number of chains/multiples stood still (71), so no change in the share for indies. The number of charity shops (9), and estate agents (increased by one to 21), also remained constant.
But clear growth occurred in two sectors: the number of food & beverage outlets increased to 73 (a 9% increase) – bars, eateries and takeaways now occupy 1 in 4 of town centre units – and the number of businesses roughly identified as hair & beauty increased to 34 (36 if you include those for dogs), a 10%+ increase.
The direction of travel is unmistakeable and fits with the popular conception: the retail offer of Crouch End is narrowing, replaced by growth in the leisure and service sectors. The impact of online shopping no doubt. It would be good to hear people’s thoughts on this – is it something to resist, and do we buck the market at our peril, or should it be something to embrace?"
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Of course Crouch End and Muswell Hill aren’t retail paradises but compare the figures for Crouch End with Green Lanes
In your post the Crouch End Neighbourhood forum state that “ bars, eateries and takeaways now occupy 1 in 4 of the town centre units” which is 25%.
Haringey’s survey of Green Lanes carried out in August 2018 found that those kinds of businesses occupy 47% of the frontages - almost 1 in 2. Is that sustainable and is that a town centre that’s encourages people to spend their money locally?
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Without intervention Green Lanes doesn’t stand a chance. Remember Cyber cafes? Back in the day every other shopfront seemed to be one. It was a bandwagon to be jumped on and when computing at home became cheap they folded like a house of cards. The worst people to decide what the best is for a high street are business people. They on the whole are very short sighted and follow what seems to be working for neighbouring businesses. That’s why GL is almost end to end eateries that all try to get a slice of a market that remains the same size.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'm supportive of a guiding governmental hand, in theory, Michael. But is there much evidence of its proven efficacy to date?
Following the Portas project almost a decade ago, we had 'Town Teams' designed to respond to the high streets challenge. I'm not sure that got us very far. Have any of the UK initiatives had any real success. Have any of the approaches tried elsewhere worked? Perhaps they have, but I'd like to see the evidence.
I'm not saying that nothing can be done. Far from it. I'm sure it can. But I think it'll need real local leadership. The question is do we have it at either the borough or neighbourhood level? And are we prepared to contribute? Our current neighbourhood leadership decided to create something akin to what we have today. Is that what we want? If not, we have to be more actively involved. Is there the local capacity?
We've recently had the announcement of the latest UK scheme to save the high street - the £675 million Future High Streets Fund (something Harringay could bid for).
This latest scheme was based on some research that identified the factors that lead to high street success. They were split into those that we can realistically do something about and those that we can't. It then listed the top 25 factors that local areas can tackle.
Those top 25 are listed on page 12 of the attached report. It makes interesting reading and is worth considering in relation to Harringay.
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Ask yourself this question. Where do you actually spend your money? If you want to do something other than eat, who benefits from your cash? Apart from buying the daily paper and getting the odd thing at Iceland almost all of my money goes out of the immediate area.
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I'm not sure that I agree that Harringay's high street is dying, Michael. It's most certainly undergone a significant shift. It's no longer a thriving local town centre. But, it is pretty successful at what those who've been shaping it, wanted it to be. It now serves as a hub for a population, many of whom don't live in Harringay but who who flock here to eat, groom, socialise and do some limited shopping, much as people do with Westfield, but the offering is different. It works as what it is.
With its high number of shop premises, an arguably somewhat forbidding linear format, lack of open community spaces, and proximity of other good 'town centres', there's a real challenge for it to regain its place as a retail shopping area serving a more locally-based population.
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