Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey Council's Tottenham regeneration team has no black or ethnic minority members
Seems rather strange. Even if it happened because no one on the Council thought about it that would show a colour BLINDNESS that one would have hoped that councillors were aware enough to avoid.
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11376458._Unacceptable__l...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Programmers don't have to relate to, or make decisions on behalf of, other people.
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Permalink Reply by Ruben on
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Boy, that's the most discriminatory comment I had read in a long time.
IT people design, develop, test and support tools for all the people to use. Therefore it is vital to engage with our users and customers. The big problem here is that the level of intelligence required to deal with certain problems often requires a type of mind that can abstract itself from the noise around (that's what "normal" people call the geek being on his own world).
But don't be fooled by that, that geek is making the decision that will make the button on your iphone work, the bank pay the right amount of interest, the traffic lights take turns and pretty much command every little aspect in our lives. The biggest problem of geeks nowadays is that the breech between IT and the average user has grown so wide that they can't begin to understand the process that has gone on behind the click of that button.
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I'm a programmer. I know what's involved and it's miles away from being in the senior management team of one of the most ethnically diverse areas in Europe.
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Permalink Reply by Mr Wodjacallim on
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In fairness, Haringey did have a good Acting Planning Director, Ransford Stewart, who is black. I had the opportunity to meet hm, he struck me as smart and I would not hesitate describe him as man with a good plan.
The unfortunate thing was, I do not think he ever worked directly on the Tottenham Regeneration, instead he got the more minor roles. Perhaps someone Haringey should re-engage him in a more prominent role.
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Permalink Reply by Seema Chandwani on
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^^ THIS.
I think this is the point of this debate. No one is asking for preferable treatment for Black/Minority Ethnic managers - it is questioning whether the council are recognising this talent. Ransford Stewart, a good example.
No one is asking for positive discrimination for Black/Minority Ethnic managers, I partly agree that in some cases this is discrimination. But also (in my opinion), it damages merit over entitlement. People should be given roles because they are the best person for the job, but all obstacles should be removed to ensure the best people apply and are assessed.
We have to look at this in context. The police in Haringey have Black/Ethnic minority people in their senior management. The most senior cop in the borough is black, no doubt had to work harder (and get a Phd) to get there, but got there nonetheless. Likewise 3/13 (including 6th Form) Head Teachers are black, again no doubt had to work harder to get there, but got there. The voluntary sector in Haringey is also attracting Black/Minority ethnic talent at the top with the CEO of the Selby Centre being Asian and the CEO of HAVCO being black (both women too).
So the question is not incapability of Black/Minority Ethinic managers, but what is it in the Haringey Council structures that is preventing it from attracting the same diverisity seen in other public services in the borough. Considering the Senior Management structure of the council is bigger, it should allow for a few more.
As a former council employee (who was also promoted whilst there) I can say this:
- There was no conscious effort to prevent black/minority ethnic people from applying overall (although not all of these opportunities were advertised for people to know to apply)
- As someone who moved from frontline management to middle management, I was put on an ILM Management course & allocated a coach (who became the Tottenham Cheeseman so someone of high calibre).
The staff who were on the structure below me were extremely diverse (including disability/gender). However, the staff above me on the structure were not. There was not one manager between me and the CEO who was Black/Ethnic Minority. My colleague on the same level as me was also Ethnic Minority.
About a year into my post as a manager, my manager was promoted upwards and a vacancy became available. It made sense both myself and my colleague were to apply. It was only advertised internally and we were the obvious front-runners. However, when the post came out it was for a grade 2 above the one me and my colleague were on, the rule in application was only people on the same grade or one below could apply. We thought that excluded everyone, definately me and my colleague. However it transpired another person my manager was managing in another team was a grade above us (about £2k) despite being the on the same level as us. She, a white woman, thus by default became the only person eligible to apply and got the job. She had been with the council for a year, me 3years (at the time) my colleague 9 years (at the time).
Ironically no advert was placed for the job my manager was moved up to. This new job of hers was about a £75k salary. What her new role covered meant there were more potential applicants from other teams (with eligable black people to apply).
There are/could be various reasons for this. But to avoid such scenarios it should be policy that where only one person is eligble due to salary alone, the post should be externally advertised to allow all staff to apply and be judged on capability and nothing else. Or the conveyor belt of discrimination continues as to this day I have no idea why the other manager in the other team was a grade above us to begin with.
I am not claming racial discrimination in this case. Just demonstrating how systems are possibly preventing the diverse pool of council staff from the front/middle moving up and/or allowing for localised discrimination/pre-selection. When we see the current all white council chart, it begs the question why there is a 'white flight' in the ladder and what the council are doing to review their systems to ensure they are not discriminating or allowing loopholes.
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If you believe that an all white SMT in Haringey Council reflects the distribution of necessary skills and abilities in our ethnically diverse borough and is not the outcome of conscious or unconscious attitudes and patterns of promotion, recruitment and other forms of social selection you are blind to how any society functions. Like Seema, what I'm suggesting is not that people should be appointed simply because they are not white ethnic English but that a 'purely on ability' argument that ends in such a skewed outcome needs explanation (unless, of course, you believe that people who are not white ethnic English are inferior). Finally, as John rightly notes the way in which people express themselves matters - if you are aggressive or offensive it does not help us genuinely relate to each other.
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That's a great reply. That's the seriousness that the press article lacks and what I was complaining about.
You are also highlighting how the rules for recruitment lack flexibility to promote real talent and need reviewing. That's what the council should be really learning from.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Gawd lummee, what is this nonsense of having to be of a certain grade before you can apply. This is management out of the ark. A pre-screening to ensure only candidates reaching a minimum standard makes sense. That saves everyone the unnecessary time and expense of taking no-hopers through the application process, but beyond that all applicants should be welcome. I can't believe that the Council are still using existing grade as an application pre-qualification.
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I wonder if Hackney do this? *looksup* *whistles* *handsinpockets* *shufflesfeet*
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Seema, do you know how many of Chief Executive Nick Walkley's Senior Management Team are permanent staff and how many "interims" on fixed term or daily contracts?
Or how many "consultants" the Council has on a long or medium term basis?
Is there any pattern of how many of such non-permanent staff are black/minority ethnic?
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Interesting question Mr S.
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Of course the real problem with that SLT chart is that there isn't a single Ruben on it. I'm sure the Council needs to introduce Positive pro-Ruben Discrimination. We cannot allow this blatant anti-Hawaiian racism to be perpetuated in our names and on our tax.
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