Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey council - freeholder
We're considering buying a leasehold flat. Haringey council is the freeholder. Having heard stories from people getting massive bills from the council for work carried out under the Decent Homes initiative, we're a little hesitant. I'd love to hear about other people's experiences with this.
From what I understand, the initiative applies to social housing properties. The flat we're looking at is a first floor conversion. The downstairs flat is owned and rented out by the council. I'm guessing it would be covered by the initiative?
Has anyone had any experience with the council when doing your own renovations/repairs? Among other things, we'd need to do a loft conversion and replace the windows. I understand that we'd need permission for both. It makes sense for the loft conversion, but how would the council know that you've changed the windows?
Also, has anyone had to extend their lease?
Any stories or advice would be welcome.
Thanks in advance.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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A friend bought a leasehold flat in a council block in Islington. She had to pay her share of periodic upgrades, which was fine. But she objected to having to pay to replace her windows since the previous owner had recently installed new UPVC windows ( which matched all the others ) and there was nothing wrong with them.
Islington got upset because there was no planning permission for the replacement windows and said she would have to have her windows removed at her expense, to be replaced with the identical Islington windows.
The argument raged back and forth for a couple of years until she got retrospective planning permission and I believe she then didn't have to pay her share of the block's windows.
But she firmly believed that Islington thought that right-to - buy owner occupiers were the lowest of the low and were last in line when running repairs were necessary under the leasehold terms.
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Permalink Reply by Martin (Woodside) on
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My wife's niece bought her fairly new council flat in Shoreditch, a few months later she got a £3k bill for 'new earthing' with the electrics, I told her to contest it on the grounds that it would have been a council inspector who passed the electrics in the first place, I think she won that one.
As for the original question, best scour Google for forums etc, and I am sure that there are laws governing council lessored property and there are books on it written by tenancy experts and associations. Personally I would prefer to have the council as landlords as they tend to get proper quotes for work rather than the sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-contracted 'pond life' cowboys that some private landlords employ (on maximum rate of course).
Also, apparently some private landlords have taken to splitting properties under different lessors to hinder tenant/owner associations from buying the lease.
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Permalink Reply by Rainbow_carnage on
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Thanks, both.
I have done some googling and have found a ton of horror stories. Here are are just a few:
I'm not at all convinced that the council insists of value for money from the subcontractors. No one in their right mind would pay this much were the money coming out of his own pocket.We've lived in the same flat for 13 years. There are three flats in the house, all privately owned. The freeholder is a private company. In that time, the only work I've seen them do is change the front door. That level of involvement would suit us just fine. My concern is that, if one of the flats is a social housing property, the council would have to do work as part of the Decent Homes programme.A quarter of the street we currently live on is covered in scaffolding while the windows are being replaced. They're all houses where Haringey council is the freeholder. Some of the flats are privately owned, others are owned by the council. It's my understanding that the council tenants don't have to pay anything extra, while the handful of private owners have been hit with massive bills. This is exactly the sort of thing that makes us nervous.
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Permalink Reply by SarahC on
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I think the Decent Homes programme has pretty much finished, so you might be safe. If you're in a flat that's not on an estate I'd imagine there's a limited amount of large outlays they could actually bill you for (roof, maybe?) so you're not so exposed.
I'm a leaseholder in a low-rise estate and we've got the Decent Homes upgrade going on at the moment, which is going to cost me thousands, but it's been delayed for years so I'm quite glad it's finally happening. The trade-off for me was that I could buy in an area I couldn't have considered otherwise. But being a leaseholder with a public freeholder isn't ideal - they're geared to dealing with tenants rather than leaseholders and you occupy an ambiguous position, neither fish nor fowl.
That said, years ago I knew some people with a flat like yours where the other part of the conversion was still a council flat (not Haringey) and they ended up doing all the house maintenance because the council hadn't done anything in 20 years and didn't look likely to start.
Another thing to look into is that Homes For Haringey's contract is up for grabs next year, so the management could transfer back to the council, or to another provider.
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Lessors have us by the 'short and curlies' because any work they carry out they will bill you for, if you don't pay you can't sell your flat without taking the repair bill cost off the sale price, also, they usually win in court.
Some smaller blocks/conversions have common ownership, then the tenants can agree work between themselves, but it's not all 'beer and skittles' as getting people to contribute money is a task in itself (e.g. roof needs repair, ground floor doesn't want to help pay for it).
After moving into our first flat a few weeks later we got a court summons and eviction warning, the old lady that we bought off hadn't paid the ground rent, a fine start for nervous FTBs!.
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Permalink Reply by JJ B on
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Your solicitor should ensure that all sums due have been paid, including land rent. It should be up to date or get it deducted from the price.
The head lease and any other lease should be available so that you solicitor can go over them them and tell you the pros and cons of the arrangements therein contained.
You will be paying the solicitor to work FOR YOU and not not to shuffle the paperework around. Make sure you get them to do the necessary checks they are being to carry out.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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The previous owner of my flat changed the windows and doors. I made her get retrospective permission before completion. However, even with permission Haringey insisted on replacing my front door as the door they gave permission for last year wasn't up to current fire regs.
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Permalink Reply by Rob B on
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Hi,
Not sure If this is against forum rules so I won't mention the name of my firm, but I'm a solicitor who specialises in property litigation and leasehold enfranchisement (lease extensions and buying freeholds).
My firm is in the west end, so we are probably a bit more expensive than a local firm, but I'm in the FTT (tribunal) pretty regularly on lease extensions.
If the mods allow it I'd be happy to give you a quick run down on extending your lease and likely costs. I don't want to fall foul of any "touting for business" rules, however, so will wait for mod approval first!
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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All entrepreneurial pigs welcome!
As things stand right now, if you're responding to a request, you're welcome to tout, particularly if that comes in the guise of help - as it sounds like yours will.
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Thanks Hugh,
Reen & Adam - feel free to drop me an email to rb@cbglaw.co.uk and I can give you a quick run through the lease extension process. If you are thinking of doing it within the first 2 years of owning the property there are a number of steps you will need to get the seller to undertake on your behalf before the sale, so you will probably need to have an understanding of the process (and include it in any offers you make) before you start.
Rob
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I bought a Haringey flat last year. Asked the agent if there were any major works coming up. No, nothing like that. The vendor's solicitor took forever to come up with the resale pack, which when it arrived showed over 10k of works coming up. Of course after I took possession the estimate went up.
On the plus side, I was able to afford a flat in London...
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Permalink Reply by Jane on
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I bought earlier this year with knowledge of upcoming works which were reflected in the asking price, so I made judgment in order to get a pretty spacious flat for the budget. Now faced with waiting until March 2016 for them to replace windows when originally told would be summer this year. And I got distinct impression I'm at the end of the list as Keepmoat prioritise council tenants receiving new kitchens and bathrooms. My regret is that I think am too late to apply to replace windows myself - apparently only a 30 day period. despite works probably not completing for 18 months or more after consultation. But I may try.
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