Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

HAPPY SAINT PATRICKS DAY.

Happy Saint Patricks Day to everyone on hol,

  enjoy the day.

     xx

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Permalink Reply by Liz on March 17, 2011 at 17:36

Really, any reference? Iincluding the support and whip round shown for the Catholic Worker House of Hospitality? The listing of Christmas services at St Paul's? Our welcome to the online community for the St Paul's website, my feeble attempts at charting (Christian) religion in Harringay (haven't had much luck finding public information about other faiths in the community), advice about Ramadan etc.

One or two people make the odd light-hearted reference to 'god squads' or complaints about being bothered on their doorstep but aside from one very memorable discussion on the site, I don't think every reference to religious belief on the site is negative or indeed that people react negatively every time religion is mentioned.

Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on March 17, 2011 at 18:13
And I'm still waiting for John McM's riposte to my inclusive greeting to him for "the day that's in it"!
Permalink Reply by Liz on March 17, 2011 at 21:59
Sure we pagans are always happy to feast and Angus's boy Patrick is as good excuse as any. Sheáin Shaolta Mhic Mhaoláin will buy the first round.
Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on March 17, 2011 at 22:27
Nice try Liz. Padhraig Mac Aonghusa anglicises as Paddy McGuinness. The beauty of the adjective saolta is that it can mean secular(ist), worldy-wise, worldly, but also upright and respectable. Let John choose!
Permalink Reply by Liz on March 17, 2011 at 22:33
Come on OAE,  that wasn't bad for a first crack at translating Gaelic. At least I worked out John's name and you did call us pagans. I was never going to Guinness from a word that looked like Angus...surely the same etymology? (sorry, word nerd moment)
Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on March 17, 2011 at 23:02
Well, I wished him the blessings of God, Mary, Patrick, Brigid, Colmcille and all the old Pagan Gods and that he'd get enjoyment and pleasure from the feast (féile/feis/fleadh) of P MacAonghusa.  Yes Aonghus is the very same as Aberdeen Angus, but the 'k' sound of the Mac prefix elides into a 'G' with the 'Aon' syllable, then the middle 'g' is aspirated by the 'h' (originally a '.' over the 'g'), disappearing the g but doubling the 'nn' - whereas the anglicised Scottish Gallic keeps a harder 'g'.  Is that nerdy enough for you?!
Permalink Reply by John D on March 17, 2011 at 19:51

My use of " any " was too much of a generalisation .  but your references are to information items from the HOL administration, not expressions of opinion.

 

What I had in mind was the tone of members' complaints about religious events on Ducketts Common or Finsbury Park and the conversion of cinemas into venues for religious gatherings  -

 " It is such a shame to see it used as it is now ". 
" As for the betting shops and the religious groups, I can't decide which depresses me more.."
" I might have wanted to have a (secularists) picnic there that day but would not have been able to for the loud, hammy music and fear of being saved....."

I don't see these as being light hearted.

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Liz on March 17, 2011 at 20:45

People probably don't bother giving opinions on local faith based groups that they see as positive contributions to the community, like a new vicar getting the Anglican community active at St Paul's.

I actually think there are plenty of positive opinions as well, look at the blog post about Giuseppe Conlon House which I wrote, not as a member of HOL admin, but as a personal contribution after meeting with the CW. My history posts grew out of research online when I realised how interesting the methodist/non-conformist aspect of Harringay's history was and after online conversations with OAE about local Catholic history, both well received and also contributed in a personal capacity. You don't generally find people making any sort of negative comment about the local ministers and priests who work within their communities nor about local faith groups that are part of the community, such as those who use the mosque or the Greek Orthodox Church (unless it's to moan about their parking). 

What people object to in the examples mentioned is the fact that previously free access open spaces, such as cinemas are largely taken over by groups that are not particularly interested in the local community, these happen to be, by and large, religious groups - let me know when the atheists start buying old cinemas and keeping out the believers and I'll be just as unhappy about that. 

Also, I'm not sure why the odd secularist comment meant largely as jokes is considered such a crime- after all certain mainstream Christians, such as the R4 favourite Christina Odone, have plenty of deeply unpleasant things to say about atheists and they're not usually joking. You'll also find there are plenty of folk that will challenge anti-religious bias (try doing a search for religion on the site) when they think lack of tolerance is being shown. 

As is often the case (you see it in political debate too), people take a few examples from across a couple of discussions and generalise that to "all members of HOL think" - you acknowledge that you made a generalisation about references, but stick to your belief that members opinions are negative, I'm not sure that even that is right. How can we know what 3000+ members believe in? 

Permalink Reply by Maddy on March 17, 2011 at 21:06

I'd just like to confirm that I am not anti-religion, indeed I am not without beliefs of my own. I was just referring (light-heartedly - thanks Liz!) to the people who bang on doors early on weekend mornings to try and convert me to their own views - I would be just as put out if it were Richard Dawkins, or even a local politician. I prefer to make up my own mind and leave others to do the same.

 

 

Permalink Reply by John D on March 17, 2011 at 21:19

Thanks for the clarification Maddy.

I propose to drop the subject now as it's going much further than my original comment ( which was meant to be light hearted but I forgot to add the :-) ) merits.

Permalink Reply by John D on March 17, 2011 at 21:10

I've never seen Christina Odone contribute to HOL :-)

 I don't know what 3000+ members believe in: as we know, a very small proportion of the members actively contribute to the discussions. But I'm curious as to why opinions expressed about religious activities seem largely ( how about that ? ) to be negative.

 

I may be wrong, but when I talked with Con at the CW Centre I understood that it was purely a charitable refuge and that there was no faith-based observance expected of the participants: ie it is not a church.

The  little  ex-cinema by the Queen's Head attracts 2-300 Portuguese-speaking residents of North London on a Sunday evening. It's both a worship and a community event. That's what they want to do and they are helping to keep the building out of the hands of the developers. Is that such a bad thing ?

 

Edit to add:

See above.


 

Permalink Reply by Liz on March 17, 2011 at 21:28

No not a church but CW is a religious community who live according to their beliefs and do good works for all. They make no secret of their Catholic faith nor of what they would not allow within their walls...which is fair enough.

I have enormous respect for any group who live their religious ideals and work for the common good. I know very little about the Queen's head community (except they are not very keen on clearing up their rubbish) and I don't object to them being there, but I don't think we can deny that people feel, rightly or wrongly, that they don't tend to be interested in bridge building with people in the locality and they will get judged for it.  

If Odone showed her face around here, my money would be on OAE to sort her out before the atheists ever got to her.

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