Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Freedom Pass under threat?
The government has suggested it may slash funding for the free travel scheme enjoyed by tens of thousands of elderly and disabled Londoners.
Minister for Transport Sadiq Khan said his department will review the £58million that was previously earmarked for London town halls to subsidise the pass in 2010/11.
London Councils, the umbrella body for local authorities in the capital, says each borough may lose up to £1m in funding, leaving councils with the unenviable choice of picking up the tab for the concessionary off-peak fare scheme, or making cuts.
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Minister for Transport Sadiq Khan said his department will review the £58million that was previously earmarked for London town halls to subsidise the pass in 2010/11.
London Councils, the umbrella body for local authorities in the capital, says each borough may lose up to £1m in funding, leaving councils with the unenviable choice of picking up the tab for the concessionary off-peak fare scheme, or making cuts.
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Tags for Forum Posts: buses, freedom pass, older people, public spending cuts, public transport
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Judith Box on
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That's not true - the well off british middle classes love something for free. As anecdotal evidence I provide you with my in-laws (and most of their peers in deepest darkest Surrey). Who because they are time rich, use their free bus pass to plan elaborate routes from their house to ours! In fact in one of their more kooky moments - they thought up a plan to send courier packages by OAP mail.
So maybe that's a solution - you get your 'free' pass, if you promise to transport a certain number of brown paper packages a year, no questions asked - nudge nudge wink wink.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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So you don't much like your in-laws, Judith.
I'm with James and John D on this. The (so-called) Freedom Pass is one of the few symptoms of a civilised society you will all eventually value. Perhaps Britain's version is more restrictive than elsewhere - so we, the 'seriously old', won't clog up your buses and trains in the morning peak hours. Perhaps only in Britain would the Freedom Pass so rankle with the next generation.
Yesterday I managed to forget my pass but, as I handed my £2 to the W5 driver, he waved (waived) it away and said, 'Not at all, Sir!'. He was Polish. I'm not so sure what a British bus inspector might have made of that. On-the-spot fine for me and the sack for the driver ?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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And of course - being retired I have a lot of free time. If I didn't have my Freedom Pass I would use my car a lot more to get around :-)
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Permalink Reply by Malcolm on
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I don't think Judith was suggesting she didn't like her in-laws (at least I hope not!)
Let me be clear - I have no problem with Freedom passes for OAPs or everyone if we have the money to pay for it. But if we don't (and the national debt that I'll be servicing for a lot longer than you is scary) then I'd ask whether a Freedom pass for everyone over 65 makes sense compared to say, a better pension?
In general I think it's better to just give people money and let them decide what matters most (transport? heating? present for the wife?) rather than saying "we've decided what's good for you, so have your free bus pass and like it."
As for whether a Freedom pass is really "one of the few symptoms of a civilised society", I'm not sure I want to get into that debate but off the top of my head I can think of several things that define civilisation, and bus passes aren't on the list.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Caring for the elderly and disabled is on mine.
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I think you're committing a logical fallacy if you are equating a bus pass with caring for elderly/disabled. Would canceling pensions and healthcare but providing a bus pass count as caring for the elderly?
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@ Malcolm - I think you're committing a logical fallacy. Nobody has suggested that providing a bus pass will necessarily be paid for by cancelling pensions and healthcare.
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@Malcolm: "and the national debt that I'll be servicing for a lot longer than you . . ."
Are you sure?
Also, any chance that your babyhood allowance, school or uni fees were subsidised from my taxes ? I may be demanding a rebate as I fear they've been wasted.
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@Judith Good on them. Those buses are running anyway and it's less opportunity for them to read "Bus with no passengers" articles in their Daily Mail on the way there.
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@James - just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Most middle class families claim child benefit, even if they don't 'need' it.
Your argument only works if the cost to the council of the bus passes is dependent on use alone. I suspect (but cannot prove) that it's not - the council pays a fixed amount per pass, irrespective of whether it's used. And possibly irrespective of whether it's even issued i.e. they may simply pay a block amount for the right to issue a pass to every OAP in the area.
@John D - Yes, I'm in the 30-40 bracket. But luckily that's totally irrelevant when it comes to evaluating the argument. I have children but support means testing child benefit as well - I generally don't like my taxes being used to give people things that they are perfectly capable of paying for.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Any benefit that becomes difficult to claim and relies on means testing tends to lie unclaimed by those that need it most, because means testing is a demanding and demeaning process.
I have actually paid a lot of tax in my time and I really don't mind it subsidising older people and the disabled to get around a lot more - just like people without kids usually don't mind their taxes paying for children and maternity services.
A few people may 'abuse' the system by being able to afford it - how about a few pics of well-heeled pensioners with signs round their neck saying 'We're on to you!. Pay your bus fare like the rest of us!' like they do to the poor devils on the jobseekers allowance who might do a bit in the grey economy to pay for a few Christmas presents.
I say leave the Freedom Pass as it is. That generation have paid and continue to pay council tax/rates. Its not a benefit; and its not free, its a reward for having worked hard and helped to build a welfare system and an NHS with the money they paid into the system. Its the bit they get back and they are most welcome to it.
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@Liz - as someone who's recently had the pleasure of experiencing claiming the Job seeker's allowance I agree that means testing is demanding. But saying it lies unclaimed by those who need it most seems strange to me - if you really (REALLY) need something then presumably you'll put up with a bit of effort.
Of course if you don't really need it you won't bother - which is kind of the point.
I know there's lots of unclaimed benefits around, but my understanding was this was more to do with people not knowing what they could/should claim than because they knew about it but didn't want to do the means testing.
I believe economists call this revealed preference - we may say we want/need something, but if we don't part with some cash/effort to get it we reveal we don't really want/need it. Strangely this makes it a rather better indicator of people's underlying needs/wants than simply asking them.
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