Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JHauptman on June 29, 2018 at 22:31

Alan you appear to be of an age whereby you've indulged in your share of bread and circuses.

What is often seen on community forums like this is the adoption of the market-driven economy as and when it fits. But I would not be surprised to find those people supporting this venture in their one-line affirmations showing disdain for a market-led economy in other areas of their lives.

The original mention of this business was by its founders and highlighted the regulations and licencing requirements. The same regulations and hurdles that face every other business in London and Haringey. 

There are usually quite well considered arguments for such regulation. Certainly more considered than "it's sunny and I'd like a burger and a dance nearby. I hate taking the tube".

Industrial estates throughout London are being developed. or rents are being raised to levels which are no longer affordable for existing businesses. So the teachers, nurses, bus drivers etc of the industrial world can no longer operate in London. Is this tenable? 

Well, of course it's not. But, certain councils are keen to accommodate 'placemakers' so that their developer friends can ask more for their 2-bed apartments.

It is no coincidence that outfits like Streetfeast are venturing into Wood Green. They are no longer welcome by the inner London councils. The licensing has become restrictive because of their 'externalities'. To you and me, they are the noise, violence, vomit and general antisocial byproducts of the booze and burger culture.

But back to the simple economics, the idea that a fictitious 30 new jobs and £xm of investment is a boon for the area is patently false. The food and beverage industry in the UK is in quite dire straits. With stagnant wages, the idea that it's anything more than a zero-sum game can't be justified.

Whatever money goes into this venture MUST come from another. Ie. Local, business rates paying, licensed, planning permissioned, and fully taxed businesses will naturally be at a disadvantage and lose custom to those that aren't.

So, while good music and food on a lovely summer's evening is an attractive proposition. There is a lot more to consider.

Let's take the Green Rooms gift from Haringey Council to private operators as an example. In the business plan, the operators stated that they would be saving the borough £X000s/worker based on the Job seekers allowance. Utter nonsense given that the government covers these costs. They also assured London Living Wages, which they do not pay. They received a grant and pay a peppercorn rent on a prime site within 200m of a tube station. Placemakers for developers' profits.

Unfortunately, the belief that 'rejuvenation', 'gentrification'. or whatever term you want to use is predicated on food and liquor is still pervasive in Haringey Council.

The only time I have seen push-back against this was when Cllr Goldberg (Regeneration and Economic Development) addressed 100ish entreprenuers  at local bar and stated that " I'm not against late licences, I love the funky things you're doing late at night. We should have a more funky places and do more funky things together".

You can imagine the scene as 100 millenials' internal dialogues simultaneously wheezed "Daaaad!"

It was very nearly the end of Tottenham as the 'next cool place'.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 30, 2018 at 0:38

Thanks, JHauptman for your thoughtful and very wide-ranging comment. The themes you raise are some that I've mentioned or thought about. The broad brush picture you paint is one I recognise and you seem to have a much better grasp of the issues than me. Plus - it appears - some inside knowledge.

But even so, isn't it too early to make any assumptions about one business - "Street Feast"? 

Anyway who can blame businesses for taking a previous "cabinet" councillor seriously? Although I'm unsure how many of his neighbours in Muswell Hill would support a call for more late licenses in or near their own homes.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 30, 2018 at 10:39

A few other points JHauptman. 
You've made some comments about subsidies to certain favoured businesses. I know about some of these examples - Chicken Town and Jon McAslan being the two prominent and evidenced examples where not only was there no "level playing field" but where the legal State Aid limit appeared to be ignored.
If you have hard information on others - or enable questions which can be posed as F.o.I.s - I'd be interested.

Your point about industrial estates is one - which you probably know - has been raised by academics and others.

Your suggestion that this is to do with a market-driven economy seems an over-simplification. You mentioned peppercorn rents and if that's accurate it would be another example of avoiding the rules and framework of the market economy. Instead asking the Local State and local politicians to waive rules, and subsidise favoured businesses ranging from "hard-up"  football clubs; to starving starchitects; to bars they like going to.

As consolation prizes, public money is sometimes given to a few shops -not directly but to pay for external designers doing a cosmetic facelift. Apparently this is done without any understanding  of the chains of property ownership; nor who actually benefits from the public subsidy.  Elsewhere, basic services fail to function properly - stuff like fixing potholes promptly & keeping pavements clear and clean.
Not much chance of a politician getting a selfie or proper photo-op, I guess.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by AlexConx on June 30, 2018 at 11:09

What was intended to be a post about letting people know that you don't need to get away from wood green this weekend if you fancy a bite to eat with your family or friends ended up being a pretty depressing and arduous thread. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on June 30, 2018 at 11:29

A discussion about public policy depressing?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Abi on July 1, 2018 at 8:46

Welcome to HoL

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul Harding on June 30, 2018 at 9:17

'funky' 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by matt on June 30, 2018 at 9:40

Radical 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kotkas on June 30, 2018 at 15:15

That's a hell of a first post. "Food market vs. 'bus drivers of the industrial world' - the age old tension of capitalist society!" 

I don't usually find common ground with Alan but I'd agree that the assumptions you make about this business border on defamation.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on July 1, 2018 at 11:11

Hmm, JHauptman, it seems that - inexplicably - there's a bit less than an ecstatic reception for your suggestion that "there is a lot more to consider"  than "music and food on a lovely summer's evening". 

I've sent you a connection request if you feel like continuing the discussion offline. I see you're on the Victoria Line. So are we.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa on July 1, 2018 at 7:33

Did anyone go yesterday?
If so, was it busy, and any good free samples?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on July 1, 2018 at 8:27

Yes, about half full, great music and nice setup considering it was a warehouse in its previous guise.  Food was lovely but small portions, veggie options very poor unfortunately.  Great vibe for the World Cup, all in all would go again but it's definitely more for meat eaters and drinkers.  

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page