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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Hi all,

Found those dumped clothes yday on Warham Road. Fly tippers really taking the mick here given that the warning sign is right above the pile. I think this picture exemplifies the council's failed policies and measures in dealing with this ongoing problem. I feel like things have gotten worse again in the last few weeks with more dumped rubbish on our streets. We made a push few months ago trying to address the problem. Maybe worth re-engaging with the council. 

I hate having to walk along our streets and explaining to our children why there is so much rubbish on our streets. 

Time for the council to act and step up their game.

Dominik 

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I watched a young couple who were parked outside mine on Pemberton a few weeks ago- I pulled in to park behind them. Their behaviour looked odd, they seemed to be hanging about and not really doing anything, just looking up and down the road. I sat in my car for a minute or two and they did not move, but continued to look up and down the street. I saw next to their car they had a car tyre. I thought they were about to dump it...

I went back inside but could see them from indoors, and sure as eggs is eggs the bloke walked across the road once he saw the road was clear and no one was apparently watching and dumped the tyre by the raise bed on the Passage crossing. 

I went out side and asked him what the story was- they were in their later 20s, Anglo, with an accent that would imply they were professionals in some capacity. The story I got was that they had just been to the tip in Wood Green and they would not take the tyre, and the council would not take it if they left it on their own road (Ducketts- though they felt it was quite alright to do it on someone else...).

They clearly knew what they were doing and the relative rights and wrongs, but they did it anyway. I think that was what got me the most about the encounter.

I reported to Veolia a couple of weeks ago around 20 tyres dumped in one spot, and another 10 or so in another spot, all around Perth Road...perhaps is something they need to look into ASAP...

Now, JJB, please  come up with an alternative scenario or script.

One where this and other "perfectly nice little old ladies" and even littler old men meet JJB their "perfectly nice neighbour" ... in their neck of the woods". Who has been commissioned at vast expense by the Council, - payment by results -  to use your sharp intelligence, charm and persuasive skills to convince them to adopt a non-criminal pro-social option to dispose of their waste.

??????

I was confident JJB you might at least wish to try friendly face-to-face conversations which might persuade your neighbours to consider changing their behaviour.

Seeing that the "really aggressive and heavy handed approach"  you mention is impractical - given the Council's current and shrinking resources. But shouldn't it also be a very last resort? And likely not just to fail but to cause resentment and even behaviour opposite to what we'd hope to achieve?

Your very brief pen-picture of the elderly woman, put me in mind of Maggie Smith's portrayal of Alan Bennett's contrarian "Lady in The Van".

Reading jjb's post Alan, it seems that he ( she ?) tried the friendly face-to-face approach with no result other than denial. There was an opinion piece by Tony Sewell in yesterday's Daily Telegraph in which he points out the need for a cultural shift in our attitude towards authority. This will only come about when the rules by which we are supposed to live are enforced and infringement of those rules appropriately punished and when the benefits of that enforcement are apparent to all, as in Hackney where " the worst schools in Europe " were turned into " the best in the country " .

My description of JJB was based on impressions from meeting him briefly a number of times over the years.

Perhaps all of us have the frustrating experience he did, of a conversation with an acquaintance who irritatingly "just doesn't get it" about a range of issues where private short term advantage may conflict with a wider public good. My feeling is that we should keep plugging on. More friendly conversations. More examples of positive projects which work. (The Ladder & nearby has many.)

Sometimes I am one of those who doesn't get it. Until someone wiser, better informed, more up-to-date, or simply more persuasive, opens a new door in our mind and a different light shines in. (Thanks Greta Thunberg.)

Do you have an online link to the Tony Sewell article? (I've a one-article-a-week account limit with the Telegraph. Good medical reasons.) 

Long ago my own secondary school was big on authority and punishment. Which taught me some useful lessons about bullies, the use of physical violence, prejudice, snobbery, and the need for  "authority" - I'm referring of course to the then headteacher and some senior staff - to earn respect.

Sorry, I don't have an on-line link but I gather that the turn round in Hackney schools was achieved without physical violence, but simply on generating a pride in the schools and insistence on what used to be called " good behaviour "

Incidentally, in the same issue is an article on Greta Thunberg, pointing out that not many of us who need to travel to the US can afford the time or money to sail in a yacht: she is selling an upper middle-class lifestyle with no relevance to adults who have to survive in the real world.

I will keep that copy of The Telegraph for you if you want it.

 

"My description of JJB was based on impressions from meeting him briefly a number of times over the years.

Perhaps all of us have the frustrating experience he did, of a conversation with an acquaintance who irritatingly "just doesn't get it" about a range of issues where private short term advantage may conflict with a wider public good. My feeling is that we should keep plugging on. More friendly conversations. More examples of positive projects which work. (The Ladder & nearby has many.)"

I used quite a civil attitude when asking this lady about her "placing the rubbish there?". She 'just did not get it'. I did once shout at another man calling him a 'nasty old man' (he seemed a perfectly decent fellow otherwise) when I saw him emptying his rubbish from his car-footwell, into the street and refused to take it back when I asked him to. I bet you he will think twice before doing again.

I was active in my neighbourhood Alan. I used to help coordinate BGRN and have intereacted on numerous occasions with neighbours like my 'little old lady'. She is of course in the minority. As is the 'decent fellow'. But there are just enough of them around 'bringing our/their own neighbourhood down'. And it -the place - has a bad reputation for it.

I am aware that I be quite aggressively impatient with some of the politicians and so called "people in charge" in some circumstnces. That is because they just do not get it and they, which is not the case with residenst, are responsible for finding solutions to the probleems. They ARE IN CHARGE. Also I am not English, I get passionate and express myself.

When in BGRN we had many, many complaints from residents to pass on about the fly tipping problems - they see it as one of the MAJOR concerns. And I know too of the many different solutions tried to make the situation better.

There are residents that are doing great stuff in Bruce Grove and beyond to raise awareness of the issues. But just last week one such person who has been actively involved in a campaign indicated that he just wanted to give up such was the non-responsiveness receiveded from those he tried to reach out to.

So just how does far does one's patience have to stretch Alan? How long  "...should (we) keep plugging on"? These probelms have been going on for years and years and ARE GETTING WORSE. It is clear that whatever the Council has been doing JUST IS NOT WORKING. Of course the 'fly tipping policing authority' shouldn't just launch into agressive action without first carrying out a better publicity and education campaign saying 'enough is enough'.

The subsequent hardline approach will affect those who refuse to understand what they are doing and continue to act in a digusting manner. But it would also target the 'professional' dumpers who take adavantage of the council ineptitude and Veolia-Haringey's generous dumped rubbish 'collection policy'.Whatever is being done now JUST IS NOT WORKING!

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