Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Fined for jumping a red light
So I can hear many people being pleased about this, but I can promise you fining people for jumping red lights doesnt work
its the 2nd time I have been fined and this time it cost me £50 on a very rainy monday by a very grumpy young PC- not happy- all cars staitonary- and no pedestrians
But will it stop me ( or other serial red light jumpers like me)- well its a BIG FAT NO-
Its just now I will have to make sure there are no police cars in the vicinity- So infact instead of making the roads safer, instead of me previously doing a thorough check of the road of any cars, pedestrians, other cyclists., I now have to check for police which means Im possibly less than 100% focused on everything else
So to put this in context
I am a middle age woman who has been cycling in london on a daily basis for the last 30years. I have been knocked off quite a few times( absolutely none of them my fault)
2 of my accidents in my early years of cycling where when i was leaving traffic lights- so I learnt like many other cyclists, traffic lights are dangerous places to stop- So provided its totally clear, get on your way. The more cyclists on the road, the worst junctions seem with the cluster of cyclists trying to find room with cars behind getting impatient and trying to squeeze through dangerously narrow gaps
So you are never going to convince me or many other cyclists its safer to stop at red lights- although i might be a bit richer
So any PC PlODS out there dont waste your time especially on a rainy day - go and catch real crims
So i know many wont agree wth this, but unfortunately a few cyclists give us all a bad name- such as cyclists
who jump lights in a dangerous way( when there are cars around
cyclists who go on pavments and weave around pedestians- scarring them
cyclists who dont stop at pedestrian crossings when people are crossing-terrible!!!!!!!!!!
But something needs to be done with all these recent deaths, and I would be really interested in what the circumstances were- i would guarantee it wasnt due to jumping a light-unless of course the person had been drinking etc
Most bad accidents/fatalities happen by people obeying the law- so the law needs to be changed
And when are pedestrians going to be fined for jay walking across roads and knocking cyclists off
I got sent flying only 2 months ago by a pedestrian running out in front of me on green lanes, close to the ale emporium- the 3rd time a pedestrian has knocked me off over the years
Right Rant finished
And anyone/cyclist wants to make our roads safer, see the petition below
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I think it is very interesting that this kind of abusive language always gets used in this kind of debate. I'm not sure it is very helpful.
This is the most detailed analysis of serious and fatal cycle accidents I know:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/...
The majority of accidents are at junctions, the majority are considered solely the drivers fault, HGV are seriously over-represented. Where the cyclist is at fault - it is mainly children. For its worth, the incidents of cyclists jumping red lights as a cause - were too infrequent to make the report.
Bombing through red lights is clearly daft (and rude) - but there are also plenty of junctions where cyclists should not blindly pretend they are just like other road vehicles.
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Permalink Reply by LSquared on
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It's a big jump to assume that cyclists who are not agitating for special treatment must be "blindly pretending they are just like other road users".
My experience is that the majority of cyclists at junctions rarely behave like other road users, and that is why they end up so vulnerable to the mistakes made by motorists.
Getting out of the motor vehicles' way might feel safer, but what it actually does is put us out of their notice as well. The safest place to be is where the drivers are going to see us, and the most fail safe way of being where drivers will see us is to use the same road conventions as everyone else.
I would much rather agitate for higher standards of driving and genuine punishments meted out to those who do not meet them than tinker around the edges adding special rules for each different set of road users.
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If you are on the road near to an HGV then there is a real chance that they cannot see you. You might be behind, in front, or to the side. They cannot see you if you near them. There are many junctions where if you are with the traffic then this is inevitable.
I am saying no more than simple fact so far. The detailed report I have linked to very clearly says that road junctions are where cyclists are more likely to be killed or seriously injured. HGVs and coaches feature disproportionately. Drivers not looking/seeing is the biggest cause - cyclists not looking/seeing also features. Perhaps surprisingly to some people cyclists jumping red lights does not feature statistically at all - but I can see why this might be.
My response to certain junctions is to avoid them if I can; or get to the front (and make sure I am well ahead, in front of the bike box if necessary); move away from large vehicles if necessary getting off the road . . . I can certainly see that having a system where bikes can cross on the green man (with pedestrians having priority) makes a lot of sense.
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If a lorry or coach is the vehicle in front that is fine.
If they are behind, I will watch them pull up. I look for a reaction to make sure they have seen me. I will continue to make eye contact as we pull away.
If they are beside me, by definition I must be on a two lane road. If they were there first and are indicating I do not pull up side them but wait behind. If they arent indicating i will stop beside, but will watch them move off to check they don't start turning before I start to move.
If they pull up beside me that is the most risky for me - I will wave and if I don't get a reaction I will let them pull away so I am well behind before I start off.
I cycle round Old Street roundabout and over the three lane junction at Stamford Hill with busses and lorries almost every day.
You are right to be wary of large vehicles but I think wrong to think the best way to manage this is to put yourself into an unexpected road position.
Yes, there are very large blind spots around large vehicles. Thats why I position myself somewhere i can see the driver's eyes. If I can see the driver's eyes then I know it is possible for them to see me, and by waving at them I have a pretty good warning if they haven't seen me. -
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I come from Denmark where cycling is very very popular and even young kids often cycle to school. Cyclists, Pedestrians, Cars, etc. are all seen as equal road users which means that even pedestrians get fined for jumping red lights. Everyone is equal in the traffic and there is a clear duty and expectation to look out for each other. Nobody is above the law. Denmark is lucky that the roads are wider and there are segregated or at least clearly marked cycle lanes which can be difficult here due to our overcrowded narrow roads, but that just makes it more important to show some manners and accept that nobody is above the law.
Personally I find that you do have to position yourself, as a cyclist, quite agressively in the middle of the lane and have as much eye contact as possible with drivers. Hopefully new road users will learn to be more considerate of everyone they share the road with.
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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... And what the hell lorries are doing on the road with massive blind spots which they can't see a thing, I have no idea. If that's not a good example of putting profit in front of human life I don't know what is.
If they don't have the clever mirror attachments or camera's that allow them to see properly, they shouldn't be on the road. -
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It's a total abject failure to risk asses road use in any meaningful way. Placing posters telling cyclists that these massive lorries can't see a thing and suggesting the cyclist is somehow at fault for not showing greater awareness of this outrage is just pure neglect of a minority that use the most sustainable and least anti social form of transport.
As Marx would have said if he was alive today, follow the money. -
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We can't not have buses, lorries and HGVs, but you are right we need to stop some of the drivers acting as complete bullies on the road. Two HGVs, one after the other, left me with hardly any room between them and the parked cars on Hornsey Park Road. Given the speed they were at on such a narrow road I would have been dead if they had to get out of the way of an oncoming car. Just goes back to my point on manners and consideration by all. Bikes should be on the lookout for danger like anyone else, but if sensors and/or mirrors could help the large vehicles then that would be great. Maybe it needs to come from the insurance companies i.e. to increase insurance premiums for those who don't take these precautions....
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Permalink Reply by Gerry Platt on
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Best described as bullies!
It is better to take the lane thus controlling the traffic behind you. This also gives you more space to your left to retreat into if they try a close overtake.
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Call me old fashioned but I quite like the idea of good laws, policed well and supported by a first class education system and a political elite that are working to the interests of 'the people' instead of special interest groups like freight companies.
Non of which we seem to have at the moment.
Imagine if 10 - 20 bank clerks we shot by robbers every year in The UK. there would be new gun laws rushed through, terrorism bills stripping away more rights of the individual, loads more police time spent protecting banks etc. When it's 10 - 20 cyclists, it's a few green lines going nowhere a lot of bluff and buffoonery from Boris. -
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