Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Fence ownership
We live on the odd numbered side of Frobisher Road and were wondering if anyone knew which side of the back garden fence we're responsible for. We've tried to find the deeds to the house and can't seem to locate those and the Land Registry hasn't been particularly useful either. One side of the fence was badly damaged in the storms a few weeks back and we're trying to work out if it's our responsibility to get it fixed!
NOTE FROM SITE ADMIN
To summarise this conversation.
1. Side boundaries - owners are responsible for the fence on the Green Lanes side of the garden. For south facing gardens, this is the left-hand side as you look out of your back window towards the back of your garden. For north facing gardens, this is the right-hand side as you look out of your back window towards the back of your gardens.
This seems to be the rule across the whole Ladder.
2. Rear boundaries - for the north part of the Ladder (up to the north/odds side of Hewitt Road), the rear fence is the responsibility of those with south facing gardens (the exception being numbers 1 - 29 Hewitt Road where the rule is reversed for some reason).
For the south part of the Ladder (from the south/evens side of Hewitt Road), those with north facing gardens are responsible.
This information is taken from the maps held by HoL and produced by the British and Company when the land was first developed.
Tags for Forum Posts: boundary fence, property boundaries, rules about fences
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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There used to be an alley way running from the passage up between the houses to Wightman Rd and down to Green Lanes. At some point people decided to enclose this land into their own back yard so it's not available in anything official who is responsible for the back fence. What I think is fair is that the property that land grabbed that bit of the alleyway, pays for the fence.
Rather than rely on VERY local knowledge about Frobisher Rd, do you have a north facing, or south facing, garden?
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Permalink Reply by Miriam Moffett on
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Thanks for getting back to me - our garden is North facing.
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So you back onto Lausanne Rd and have the church at the top. You'll need to do a little bit of exploration to work out where you fence is relative to the old alleyway. Good luck.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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You sure about that John? Do you mean all the Ladder roads? I haven’t seen it on any old BLC or OS maps.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Fences are a bit of weird one. There is actually no obligation to erect fences around properties, but most people choose to for privacy.
The person who erected the fence owns all the fence (both sides). It may be necessary to chat to the neighbour to find out if they consider the fence their property and point out the damage. You (or your neighbour) have no obligation to repair a damaged fence but you could be sued if the fence causes injury. Generally, most people agree to share costs but it's important to note that its purely goodwill.
Here is the full advice from CAB on barriers between properties.
When we had similar problems, we "discussed" this with the neighbour but they were not interested in contributing to the costs. I guess that means the new fence is ours!
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Thanks very much for this!
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I’m sure that Liz is right insofar as the general situation is concerned. As I understand the situation on the Ladder however, people tend to have responsibility for the fence on the left as you stand looking out towards your back garden. I’m pretty sure that most of the original deeds stipulated that owners are responsible for errecting a fence on the boundary marked “T” (which as I said tends to be the left hand side one). However, even the oldest plans I’ve seen attached to deeds seem to miss out the “T” marking. It wasn’t till I got hold of the original British Land Company maps that I finally started seeing the marks.
I’ll take a look at Frobisher when I get home. Don’t feel shy of reminding me if I forget.
I think it’s probably a safe asumption that British Land required common stipulations to be in all the Ladder leases. So it’s likely that your situation will be no different to the rest of the Ladder. But at least I’ll see what evidence the old maps provide.
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Oh yes, as the CAB advice says, if there is a clause in your title deeds that says you must erect a barrier, then that is one of the four exceptions to the general rule. It should also state that you have to keep it in good repair. If it doesn't say that explicitly, the neighbour could, in theory, take a risk and leave it (as I read the advice).
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I wonder if the left-hand responsibility is for north-facing Ladder gardens like Miriam's, as when we lived south-facing on Falkland Road we had responsibility for the right hand side and it was marked with a "T" on our deeds. We now live south-facing on Sydney and the right-hand side is ours again.
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Hmm, that's odd. Are you sure that's the legal situation or just the one that's accepted by you and your neighbours. I think all the houses on the Ladder originally followed the opposite pattern.
As you face out towards your garden at the back of your house, south-facing should take left and back and north facing should take right.
This map doesn't go as far north as Hampden, but Fairfax follows the rule. If all the original deeds followed the rule, which the British Land Company map suggests they did, I can't see how things can have officially changed. Unofficially, by custom and use, perhaps, but surely not officially. Anyone?
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It's the legal situation - as stated on the map that accompanied our deeds. Land Registry confirmed. Two sets of neighbours in Falkland checked it too and theirs said the same - we were all responsible for the right hand side. I'm going to check our deeds for Sydney now, but I'm pretty sure it's the same.
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That's interesting. Can I just check, when you say south facing and north facing, are you talking about your back garden or the front of the house? In case I'm not asking clearly, as you drive down Sydney towards Willoughby, which side is your house, the left or the right?
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