Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Dangerous noise levels (95 decibels) in kids playground Finsbury Park, Sunday afternoon - were you there? Please contact council.
My three year old, my husband and I visited Finsbury Park kids playground on Sunday afternoon and commented on the noise levels so decided to measure it. We recorded 95 decibels average using an IOS app (these are actually surprisingly accurate). These are levels which are dangerous to the hearing of adults let alone the developing ears of kids. I've worked at festivals and at these noise levels all the workers on site will be handed ear plugs and warned of the potential dangers to their hearing.
I decided to call the Haringey council help line for the event which was supposed to me manned during festival hours: No answer. So I called the event manager's helpline who did pick up at least. The lady informed me that monitoring sound levels at the kids playground was not in the terms of their license!
I understand that these events bring revenue for the council and the park but many of us parents rely on the playground for our sanity at the weekend. Haringey council should make it within the terms of an events license to keep sound levels at the playground within non-dangerous levels during the hours when the playground is in use.
If you were there or even if you were not I urge you to contact the council and complain and request that monitoring sound levels at the playground should be part of the terms of the license of events at the park.
What do you think? Were you there? Did you try and contact the council help line?
Tags for Forum Posts: finsbury park, finsbury park events
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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This from Haringey's outdoor events webpage
Where does this money go?
Income generated from events in parks and open spaces will be used in the first instance to meet the parks event income target each year. This money is used towards the maintenance budget for all the borough’s parks and open spaces.
The application and booking fees will be utilised to fund the staffing and administration costs of the booking and event management process.
Surplus income will initially be used to support and develop community led festivals and events in parks across the borough. Part of the money will be used to fund training opportunities for community events organisers to help increase the number of people and the skill level of those working voluntarily within community organisations to put on events.
The remainder of the income will be used to make improvements to parks.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/libraries-sport-and-leisure/parks-and-op...
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Permalink Reply by Graham Charnock on
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So the money is used to make the parks even more attractive to events promotors, so the promoters can make even more money?
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I suppose that's the one way of looking at it Graham but as attendees see little apart from the park entrance and the fence around the site I doubt that's the prime motivation. I think one thing that we all need to be honest about though is that the parks budget (which is used for all parks and not just FP) would be smaller without the income. Whether that is a price worth paying is of course open to debate
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bailey on
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Rachel, what are you measuring? A dB is not a unit, it's a logarithmic scale. As such, a dB is a measure of nothing, without a reference quantity. Saying you measured 95 dB is the same as saying the volume was set to 11; it's meaningless.
If measuring sound pressure (with the standard reference level), an increase of 6dB represents a doubling of sound pressure level.
If measuring sound power / intensity (again with standard reference), a 3dB increase represents a doubling.
So, 2dB of sound power or pressure is actually a significant increase; 97 dB of either is a lot "louder" than 95 dB, either way.
Also, if you're referring to exposure levels, you need to take into account the frequency spectrum of the sound you're being exposed to - this is known as the weighting. It's not correct to suggest that 97 dB should be limited to 30 minutes, because you haven't stated (and I suspect have no idea) what unit you're measuring and you haven't taken into account the weightings for the spectral makeup of the sound / noise that you or your children were exposed to.
Acoustic engineers train for 3 years to understand how to take and interpret these measurements in order to assess their impact. Likewise any environmental health officer worth their pay will take your readings with the pinch of salt that they deserve.
I'm not saying it might not have been very loud, or very irksome, but an iPhone app does not an expert make.
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Hi Joe
Thank you for your response... I did do some research on the subject although obviously I'm not an expert. (I can dig out my sources when I have time.if you're interested.) It's not quite the same to say it's like saying the volume was at 11 is it? Either way i still think the playground should be included in noise monitoring locations if it's open on event days. That is all.
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I'm afraid that referring to a dB without quantifying your unit is as bad as saying the volume was set to 11. It's simply a ratio / logarithmic scale - it is not a unit or measure of anything at all, until you base it on a reference pressure / intensity.
Also, if talking about exposure, different frequencies damage the hearing more or less than others. That's why exposure measurements are weighted, to take this into account. And there are various weightings used, although commonly it's either A or C, depending upon the application.
You don't need to dig out your sources... As you'll probably be able to guess, I know a bit about this as I've got a degree in Acoustic Engineering, even if it's not my day job.
All that said, I fully agree - all surrounding public areas should be part of the impact assessment, and a children's play park ought to be no exception. This should be the nub of your argument, not the readings taken with an uncalibrated iPhone - taking noise measurements is a skill which requires more than reading postings on the internet.
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Physical safety levels aside, Haringey Council obviously doesn't care that residents living near the park are having this noise pollution imposed on them, which at lower (i.e. not physically harmful) levels can induce stress as well as being a general nuisance to residents further afield. On a warm weekend when residents could normally relax somewhere outdoors (a garden, the park itself?), it wasn't even comfortable to be home with the windows open. Even if the noise level can be proved to be physically safe, ultimately this is a mental health issue.
That's to say nothing of the week's worth of inconvenience to park users, where a large chunk of the park was closed off, including the carriageway, and, naturally, without any explanatory notices at the block off points whatsoever.
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If anyone is interested the council sent me a response and a link to this document.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/libraries-sport-and-leisure/parks-and-op...
I replied that I still thought levels at the children's playground should be monitored and please could they feed that back to the noise or licensing team. If anyone else feels strongly about this it would be great if you could do so too. It's really a small gesture on the part of the promoters but one that I for one would feel was reassuring.
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