Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Councillor Gideon Bull Suspended
Below is the email sent to party members. His crime? He asked questions about the risk to old people if the Haven Day Centre closes.
Democracy is officially dead in Haringey.
Dear redacted
Re: Suspension (removal of the whip) of Councillor Gideon Bull
Please see below emails (verbatim) from the Chief Whip of the Haringey Labour Group regarding the suspension of Councillor Gideon Bull.
I am conscious that the Tottenham CLP has many new members and there maybe confusion about what this means. By way of a brief explanation and foresee questions you may have:
- The CLP only deals with the disciplinary of members if the case they have been accused of is in regards to their membership of the Labour party.
- All Councillors belong to a Labour Group (as well as a CLP), in Haringey they belong to the ‘Haringey Labour Group’ as Councillors are borough-wide based on the geographical boundaries of Haringey Council. (i.e. there is no such thing as a Tottenham Labour Group as Tottenham is a Parliamentary Constituency boundary not a Local Council Boundary).
- If a Councillor is subject to disciplinary based on their role as a Councillor (not as a member of the party), then the case is dealt with by the [Haringey] Labour Group.
- The Labour Group can impose action on the membership of Councillors to the Labour Group and not his Labour Party membership.
- As Councillor Gideon Bull’s case is about his role as a Councillor it has been dealt with by the Haringey Labour Group.
- Councillor Gideon Bull’s suspension is a suspension from the Haringey Labour Group and not from the Labour Party. Gideon still remains a full member of the Labour Party.
- A suspension from the Labour Group means he is still a Councillor for the London Borough of Haringey as he has been elected to serve for 4 years.
- The technical term for this action is called the “removal of the whip”.
- The ability to remove Councillors from their role is covered by the Local Government Act and Representation of the People Act which has specific rules when Councillors can be removed from their role as Councillors.
- The decision to ‘remove the whip’ (suspend) is not an action that can be taken by one person, it is subject to a vote by the whole of the Haringey Labour Group. In this case the vote concluded to suspend Councillor Gideon Bull.
- The local MPs, the Assembly Member and MEPs have no vote and no decision making powers over the removal of a whip of a Labour Councillor.
As Gideon is still a full member of the Labour Party, he remains the Vice Chair of the Tottenham CLP and Secretary of the White Hart Lane Labour branch.
Councillor Gideon Bull has the right to appeal the decision to London Regional Board. If Councillor Gideon Bull decides to appeal and is successful then the suspension is withdrawn and you will be informed.
I hope my attempt to explain has helped.
As this is a decision by the Haringey Labour Group and not by the Tottenham CLP, I cannot not respond to any questions about the decision and I am writing to you solely to share the information.
Regards
Seema Chandwani
CLP Secretary | TottenhamEmails from Liz McShane - Chief Whip of the Haringey Labour Group To Be Shared With Members.
(Please note there are two emails)Dear Seema
This is to formally notify you that the whip has been removed from Cllr Gideon Bull, following the Special Labour Group meeting on Thursday 21st January, where the Labour Group voted for the recommendation.
The period of suspension is for 3 months, from 21st January 2016 to the end of the day on 21st April 2016.
I have written to Cllr Bull to confirm this and to formally notify him of the terms of his suspension.
Regards
Liz
Second Email [Following Request for Reason]:
Dear Seema,
You can say it's because of Gideon’s intervention at the Cabinet meeting on 10th November, where he spoke out against an agreed group decision, that the Labour Group voted on a recommendation to withdraw the whip based on concerns about comradely behaviour and collective responsibility in accordance with the Party’s rules and our own group standing orders.
Regards
Liz
Link to the meeting http://www.haringey.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/191461 the relevant part is 1 hour and 22 minutes.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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You make one fair point, Will Hoyle. Yes, I critique some of my former colleagues. Some for what I regard as their appalling right-wing views, policies and programmes; and some for their lack of courage in standing-up to those right-wing policies and activities.
I think it's justified to engage in this way with leading politicians and others - the key reason being that they have power and control public assets including money. It's called "Speaking Truth to Power".
My way of doing so includes, in addition to factual argument and opinion pieces; posting satirical comments, verse, attempted jokes, drawings and photos with political captions etc. I have also assisted people making short videos and organising conferences,going on marches etc. If you dislike these, then you aren't obliged to follow my Twitter, Flickr, and other pages. And of course, I won't be seeing you on any marches, will I?
In my view, Mr Hoyle - other people may of course disagree- your comments on this website appear to have little or no substance. So I avoid commenting on them. Although very occasionally I may respond for the sake of factual accuracy.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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Mr Stanton, have you ever thought of taking up a hobby? Can I suggest you visit THIS website? There's beer can collecting to Yoga. You must have very sore eyes.
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@Mr Hoyle Okay taking your comment as serious questions:
P.S. Cllr Liz McShane doesn't need to join the Tories. She's already in the KoberTories.
"Perhaps you would like to enlighten us ex Cllr so as to avoid similar inaccuracies."
I have commented in this thread on my experience of how the so-called "cabinet" system dysfunctions in Haringey. Elsewhere on HoL I have commented how in the past in Haringey even voting against the whip at a council meeting did not result in suspension.
Also how individuals were allowed considerable leeway when matters affected their wards in particular. One example is Cllr Christophides and the Pinkham Way issue.
"... and deny that you didn't expect to be suspended?"
Just to be clear, there's a difference between (a) speaking out publicly; and (b) voting against the Party whip. Cllrs Gideon Bull and Sheila Peacock have done the former.
Over the years I've often spoken out; often been 'told off'. At one time former councillor Harry Lister was Chief Whip and tried to get me out for speaking up about Cllr Charles Adje. That didn't work.
Another Chief Whip, Alan Dobbie, wanted to meet me about what he called "heckling" in a Council meeting. Sadly we could never find a suitable time in both our diaries. As you may know, Alan Dobbie joined the Tories. Another Chief Whip, Richard Reynolds had stern words with me. He too joined the Tories.
I also got told-off for going on TV and describing Haringey's PCNs as "Highway Robbery"and criticising Cllr Brian Haley the "cabinet member". He later joined the LibDems - but not before the Tories were in negotiation with him.
Did I expect to have the whip withdrawn for voting against the appointment of Nick Walkley?
It's on HoL. Search for "Brer Rabbit". You joined in the discussion, Mr Hoyle.
http://www.harringayonline.com/xn/detail/844301:Comment:440546
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Maybe you lot need a meeting ... to sort your differing points of view (off -line)
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There you go again....
What's your obsession with the "Tories"? Been watching too many Star Wars movies? What you actually mean, is that, in joining us Conservatives, they have gone over to the "Dark Side" (I find that offensive, petty and possibly in breach of HoL's house rules). Perhaps you see yourself as Master Yoda? From the Haringey Pimple (late 80s/early 90s) which was aimed at Labour colleagues to the Real Haringey Lib Dems / Tories (2010/11), you have used anonymity and "satire" to launch highly personal and nasty attacks on others.
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You were on the council? Wow. You should have said...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Can you just lay off Alan? You're being ridiculously childish. Go and nit pick somewhere else.
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HoL is a popular website, and attracts many visitors for different reasons. Or course there isn't a limit on how many contributions a single Member can make -- nor should there be. However, Alan's "contributions" become very tiring and frequent. He styles himself, as somebody noted, as Dr Know It All. Everyone is wrong -- except him. He makes very few new or interesting points. And, most annoying, accuses others of what he is often guilty of himself - namely, personal attacks and settling old, internal, political scores. I suppose we can all be charged with those charges at times? Some, though, far more than others.
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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Hmmmm...
Think there's more than one house rule in danger of being flouted here including healthy debate becoming bickering, and forum users playing the man not the ball. It may be time for you all to "lay off" don't you think? You've travelled a long way off the original point of the discussion into squabbling about who is the most annoying. I suggest for the readers of this thread there's very little in it.
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Agreed. For my part, I will work harder to do as you suggest.
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@HoL Site Admin
Mr Hoyle complained that I was ignoring him and asked me some direct questions. I was in several minds about replying. But didn't want to be discourteous in not replying to a possibly genuine question from him.
Apologies for getting this wrong. -
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Permalink Reply by Lydia R on
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Just by the way, and this is not entirely off-topic -- dealing as it does with Alan Stanton's comments about autocracy and the Cabinet system -- did anyone notice Cllr Carter's question about the number of affordable units Graingers/the Council had planned for the Wards Corner development? The response was delivered with such deadpan serenity that it took a few seconds for me to realise that there would be absolutely no affordable units at all.
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