Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Council Seeks to Move Crossrail 2 from Centre to North of Borough - Last Chance to TfL What you Think
As a result of the Council's aspirations for Wood Green, a further option has been added to the Crossrail 2 route. They want the Ally Pally option routed via Wood Green instead of Turnpike Lane.
Whilst this option may serve the Council's own aspirations, it moves the station away from a point that's as close to the centre of the borough as it's possible to get to one towards the northern boundary. The Turnpike Lane option also looks to be much better connected by road and I believe by bus too. What's more is that the Wood Green option would call for a huge ventilation shaft to be dug in Downhill's Park.
The TfL consultation ends on 8th Jan. If you'd like to have your say on this option click through to the consultation main page or go straight to the questions (If you're only interested in this part of the consultation, you need do no more than answer four questions and give your name.
Tags for Forum Posts: crossrail, crossrail 2
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 0l7ft44vlytse on
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I have mixed feelings on the proposals, while I'd rather a new connection at Turnpike Lane as it's closer to me, Wood Green does seem to make more sense. If stations are at Turnpike Lane and Ally Pally, people will use the stations but there's not a lot of scope for redevelopment - maybe some improvements here and there and yes there's the little bus station. But if they build it at Wood Green, not only will people use the station but it will greatly help with regeneration of an area that has a lot of potential and otherwise probably won't get much of a financial or political injection.
Wood Green does have a town centre sort of feel to it, though almost ruined by The Mall and some bad planning over the years. Turnpike Lane really is just a crossroads. There's nowhere at TL to make it a "destination" (yes Green Lanes is a destination but it's pretty far from Turnpike Lane), and Alexandra Palace will also probably benefit from Thameslink improvements allowing cross London travel.
So while CR2 at TL would undoubtedly benefit Harringay, I have to say I'd quite like to see Wood Green be redeveloped to it's potential too. Either way it's good for the area.
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Permalink Reply by Matt on
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Turnpike Lane ticks all boxes - it would still serve a 'town centre' at Wood Green, being at the bottom of that stretch of road, whilst also serving the equally deserving of the title 'town centre' of Green Lanes.
A station at Wood Green would result in a large stretch of track between the stations to the south and the Wood Green site, resulting I'm sure in something of a 'Crossrail desert' between them.
Ignoring the option of a station at Ally Pally is also bizarre, given the need increasingly for the venue to earn its own keep, surely held back by its limited transport options.
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It only serves those places for people who are willing to walk 10 minutes after getting to Turnpike Lane, but in reality it's doing neither much of a favour. I disagree CR2 is going to be any better for getting to Green Lanes than current transport options. It's 4 stops on Crossrail 2 to St Pancras (Seven Sisters, Dalston, Angel, St Pancras). Current transport is 4 stops too (Manor House, Finsbury Park, H&I, St P.). For Green Lanes you would probably go from Manor House anyway, making it only 3 stops. Wood Green would be the transport option that actually improves travel times, and will reduce congestion for us on the rest of the Piccadilly.
So we can rule out CR2 at Turnpike Lane being any great transport improvement for Green Lanes, and might as well focus on making Wood Green a beautiful destination instead. Coming out of Turnpike Lane station then having to walk 10 minutes to Wood Green is not going to bring anyone.
That I think is how we will see the most benefit to Harringay, by adding another great place to go right on our doorstep and bringing people to the area. As well as actually having a town centre - which at the moment Green Lanes cannot be due to it's layout and WG isn't due to poor planning. A town centre with it's main transport link a 10 minute walk away at Turnpike Lane is no town centre.
I agree it's a shame to skip Ally Pally station, but considering you have to take a bus from there or trek up a massive hill, it can easily be served by an improved bus service from Wood Green (as well as again, bringing more people to our new "town centre").
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Question I have is, why not have WG & AP? Why drop AP from the WG option? Maybe the WG option costs as much as the other 2 stations.
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I think the simple answer is the line the track would need to take makes it too difficult/expensive to curve back to meet the Palace.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I agree with all you have said but would like to throw in the Wood Green bypass. People on the ladder and indeed all the way up that current bypass, should object to the Wood Green option on the grounds that the bypass will see even more traffic than it does at the moment.
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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I wonder whether the ally pally station was ever really the councils plan but was a temporary suggestion to secure the lottery funding for the palace ... ?
Always thought linking Hampton court with Ally Pally at great expense an odd idea.
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I think I've written this on another thread, so apologies for double posting...
Why not keep the route via Alexandra Palace, and have a double-ended station (as is proposed for Seven Sisters)? The aim would be to serve both Turnpike Lane and the central Wood Green shops.
If the platforms (240m long) were located with Turnpike Lane station at the southern end, the northern ends would be between Alexandra Road and Brampton Park Road by my reckoning. The escalators could perhaps come up in the land at the back of McDonalds, 99-101 High Road, with a booking hall where the burgers are currently cooked, and an entrance onto the High Road very near to the shopping centre. McD's would lose their existing store but might be happy to relocate nearby because of extra footfall. The frontage has already been changed from the Victorian terraces on either side.
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Surely the best solution would be one in Wood Green and one in Harringay. It would even get a fair amount of local use just zipping people between the two.
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I thought that the whole point of Alexandra Palace was that they'd leave this station as above ground and then go underground upon leaving the station, next stop Turnpike Lane. So Alexandra Palace "Station" would be quite cheap. I'm saying that the net effect of having just one station at Wood Green would be to increase the cost overall as they'd have to do more tunneling from New Southgate.
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You are right that the very first plan was for an above-ground Crossrail station at Alexandra Palace. That was changed though, for underground platforms below the existing ones, with tunneling to a portal just south of New Southgate. Reasons weren't given, but could include the steepness of the required ascent, and the fact that there is an almost brand-new school just where the trains would have had to join the main line!
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Save Ally Pally say, Let's put Ally Pally back on the map!
Happy New Year!
Londoners and others may be aware that some time ago it was announced that the route for a new north-south Crossrail line, could have a main station at Alexandra Palace, near the existing East Coast Main lLine station.
Ally Pally was built in partnership with railway companies and had an innovative station terminus right beside it – originally underneath – and visitors could just hop on a train in London and arrive at the Palace without changing. That link was cut in the 50s, in the usual shortsighted way. The route still exists as the Parkland Walk. Now we have an opportunity for a new direct link to central London on the other side of the Park.
It's always helpful for a tourism destination to be "on the map" that visitors to London see so that they know it is easy to get to from central London. An AP station on crossrail would do this. This is a classic case where the board of trustees of AP should be taking a different line from what they might wearing their other hats as Haringey Borough-councillors, and defending the interests of the charity. Instead they are not opposing Haringey Council’s preference for the line to have its main station at central Wood Green – which already has its own direct tube link to the West End and is over-congested.
This choice is set out in the consultation document on this link:
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/crossrail2/october2015/user_upload...
- and we would urge SAPPers to e-mail the address given in the document to support the Alexandra Palace/Turnpike Lane option, and to ask that Ally Pally is put back on the map! The address is at the end of the document. Be quick – the consultation ends tomorrow at 5pm!
In other news: The new CEO of AP is Louise Stewart. She comes from a tourism background - entirely appropriate for AP - and is aware that the charity has not had a strategic vision as such for years. She seems aware of the importance of the palace's industrial archaeology – we hear that when she keeps on asking to see hidden bits of the BBC studios etc she keeps being told "you don't need to see that, there's nothing important there" - and has to respond: "well I want to see for myself!"
Best wishes
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