Coliseum Building under renewed threat of Betting shop lease

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michele on January 18, 2013 at 12:45

what about a community co-op. i just heard about a possible model on you and your, but i'm guessing the rent is too high!

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on January 18, 2013 at 14:29

Here's a response from Rob Tao:

I'm afraid there is no good news on the Coliseum situation. There has been lots of ideas and interest but when it comes down to the crunch, a sub-let lease of 5yrs at £70k rent plus rates is a very sobering thought! This property is £30k over the market value, and is compounded with planning restrictions on A3 use. 

 

The High Street is already under extreme trading conditions, with established retailers biting the dust. Short of getting the rent reduced or some sort of subsidy, I can't see it other than what it may become.

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Permalink Reply by Karin on January 21, 2013 at 11:03

Would the council consider changing the usage to allow A3? (I think I am right in thinking A3 would allow a restaurant?).

Surely the council would feel this would be referable to yet another betting shop on Green Lanes? 

Or could KFH sub divide the space somehow to allow for a more manageable rent?

Must get back to my tax return now...

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on January 21, 2013 at 11:24

The Council would; the landlord won't.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on January 24, 2013 at 11:42

Can we just remind people that the landlord is Paul Simon Commercial and they have exacerbated this situation by proving so intractable on the rent. As Rob said, £70K is nearly 50% over valued and yet because they have a competitor over a barrel they are gleefully giving them a good stuffing. As with the benefit discussion a couple of weeks ago, the £70K a year will go to Paul Simon Commercial in the end. BIG FAT profits for them at the expense of the community. KFH are just trying to get out of a bad deal.

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on January 22, 2013 at 19:05

Karin probably like you and  others, I am disgusted that the betting shop proliferation in Green Lanes may extend yet further.

However, I think you may be overlooking the fact that there are 15 flats above the KFH premises and it is these residents who would be most directly affected by a betting shop in the ground floor.

My understanding is that they (a) are overwhelmingly opposed to a betting shop and yet (b) might - reluctantly - still prefer a betting shop to a restaurant.

It was always a big ask to hope to find any alternative that could pay betting shop style rental, or anything like it. It was unrealistic for anyone to have believed three months ago, that the stay of execution (it was never more than that) was some kind of victory.

It is perhaps to be expected that a 'PR Manager' would ("touch base") seek to extract positive PR from the situation.

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Permalink Reply by Liza on January 23, 2013 at 21:11

This is Very Bad, though I agree unsurprising. It will effectively turn the new proposed 'town centre' outside the Salisbury into a post betting shop hang out. It is in fact inviting this to happen and to pretend otherwise is foolish. Is there any mileage in making this argument - that it is pointless spending how ever many millions to support community and encourage a good vibe on the high street if on the other hand the council and we have no power to stop this.

The truth is, if we will have a betting shop there, plans should be pulled to regenerate this area as it will end up an eyesore and somewhere to avoid akin to park benches in Turnpike lane. It is actual stupidity / foolish naievety on all our parts to allow both things to happen and to waste money trying to create a sense of community and a pleasant place to be if it will be sabotaged by this VAST space being converted into a betting shop. Let us not kid ourselves, this place is HUGE. It will be a betting Mecca and will draw punters to the area who will then enjoy the rest of their days sitting in the conveniently placed seating areas.

We need to not kid ourselves that this is not what will happen if both things go ahead. My vote would be to seriously consider pulling the plug on this part of the development- making waves that feed back to Boris about his funding to highlight the seriousness of this.  I don't mean to be confrontational, but I think this needs to be plainly stated and we cannot afford to ignore it.

 

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on January 23, 2013 at 21:51

Liza I don't think it's pointless improving that intersection, even if some of the benefit might accrue to the betting shop. Although I doubt the punters will appreciate an improvement.

The community (and the council) is all but powerless to stop the infestation. With their Gambling Act, the last government granted to the betting industry near-complete power over premises location. There would be no demand test (by licensing authorities) and the number of premises would be dictated solely by market demand.

The Coliseum premises aren't particularly large in floor area, but it appears larger than it is because it's a corner site with window frontages on two streets. It's a prime site and these days, only betting shops - with the peculiar and abnormal customer loyalty they enjoy - can afford the rental.

If an alternative use cannot be found soon, we may expect to see four FoBTs in there.

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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on January 25, 2013 at 12:04

Neil, I know it's tongue in cheek but to call them crack dens is a little snooty.

I am with everyone else and don't want another betting shop in our neighbourhood, but most folk who use them are regular pundits not gangsters or druggies as you seem to suggest.

Realistically (not co-ops, workshops or organic yoghurt making classes) what could viably use that space considering the extortionate rent considering it cannot be a restaurant, betting shop or crack house?

• Convenience store (I am sure HOL would love a Waitrose or M&S local )
• Decent 'offy' (Majestic, Oddbins etc).
• A gym of some description.

Any other realistic ideas?

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Permalink Reply by matt on January 25, 2013 at 12:19

The 4 high street businesses doing best at the moment are charities, pawnbrokers, betting shops & coffee shops. Of course everytime we hit the online button to make a purchase we take sales away from the high street.

Even Eddie Stobarts, the haulage company, are suffering from the downturn as well with the growing use of online shopping. Stuff from China goes straight from Felixstowe to great big warehouses around the Midlands,  your online purchase goes straight from there in a courier truck/van to your house (maybe via a depot). Shopping ain't what it used to be.

A restaurant can't realistically go in there (even if planning use changed to allow this) as a massive flue would need to go up to the top of the building from the kitchen and the residents aren't going to want that or the smell.

I don't know why they don't turn the ground floor into residential - that's something that is needed!!

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Permalink Reply by Alison P on January 24, 2013 at 21:44

KFH have now been in touch with residents of the Coliseum to say that unless they have an alternative they will proceed with the betting shop on Feb 1st.

Hacked off with KFH and Paul Simon both. They don't give a flying toss frankly. What happened to all that free space at the Coliseum over Xmas nonsense? Just PR puffery.

I've some sympathy with Lisa's point, seems mad to do up some outside space just so hacked off punters can hang out. But feel that could be cutting our nose off to spite our face.

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Permalink Reply by Esat Karahasan on January 25, 2013 at 1:41

I have avoided this subject on here for a while now, but I want to put my two pence in before the cookie does finally crumble. As a 30 year resident and business owner in Harringay I find myself very conflicted with this situation, understanding all arguments and opinions, but I do believe that most that have commented are loosing site of some key points here.

Firstly we must remember that Paul Simon spent alot of very hard earned cash in developing the site in the first instance and as far as I remember (being an estate agent at the time and hearing rumours) that paul simon intended on using the office themselves but found it more financially viable to lease it instead and they are entitled to.

We must also remember that this premises other than Barclays bank and some of the newly merged units on green lanes is one of the most prominent positions between Manor House and Tunrpike Lane, furthermore the property was leased at the height of the market effecting the price in two ways good market = higher rents as well as a good market means good business for estate agents meaning at the time KFH may well have been able to afford to run an office there. However, the market did slump very shortly and drastically after the deal was made and KFH never made the move, you must also consider that launching an estate agents like KFH in a new area could cost around £200k and another£1-150k per year in running costs additional to rent.

Also I dont agree the rent is overvalued, the betterbet unit was leased at £55k rent, winkworth and kings both in the same region, so if you are considering the location, unit size, prominence, footfall and passing traffic as well as window space and flexibility the unit offers not to mention it is a brand new premises never used since build! opposed to the Victorian units the rest of harringay is made up of, units that could cost anywhere from £20k upwards just to get in order due to age and condition (beleive me I have just been through it).

Paul Simon made an agreement and a legally binding one at that, if KFH didnt have the foresight on market progression or the ability to adapt to it and therefore can not afford to pay this rent then why should Paul Simon suffer, I'm sure we all know what the answer would be if anyone of you where renting a property and your tenant said oh well the market was different when I signed my contract can I have a reduction.

However having said that I totally agree that spending millions of my/our tax pounds on reinventing the area, mainly that location and then putting a betting office there to attract what can only be classed as undesirables to the area is one of the most stupid things I have heard. Harringay council has a limit on the number of estate agents allowed to operate in Highgate due to the sheer number that appeared again in the height of the market and as far as I'm aware this still stands, the same should be applicable to betting office's.

With all of the above said, I thinks its all well and good that we have a place to vent our opinions, but are we really helping? In both this and the original thread I am still yet to see one person comment with an idea or solution, even when the stay of execution was granted an various space of the use was allowed the thread went very quite, as people felt they won the battle and their job was done, hence the poor use of the space at that time, which is a genuine shame, what's more in doing so everyone seemed to forget about helping to find a better solution hence the current position.

My opinion is rather than complain, lets try to understand and help, offer suggestions maybe even try to find a tenant yourself and propose to KFH? they would more than likely pay a commission for that!

Lets be proactive and help make a better Harringay rather than just complain about it.

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