Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Chimney Breast Removal
Hi All,
I'm looking to remove a chimney breast at ground floor in the rear of my house. There is an existing chimney breast above which I wish to retain, although I suspect it is currently supported on the joists, as was the norm back in the day. I'd like to get everything done properly when the breast is taken out below and have got a structural engineer who I'm happy to use.
My only worry is that I'll end up with some large bulkheads due to the supporting steels proposed - a pair joined in the middle running beneath the breast and an even deeper one running perpendicular to support the joined ones if they sit on top of it. The picture below explains it all better.
My question is - has anyone had this type of work done and managed to avoid bulkheads and if so, how? Did it add huge additional expense recessing the steel into ceiling depth? I don't really want to start going into the floor above if it's going to be disruptive, but I want it to look right. I think the side bay window probably adds complexity...
Thanks for any advice!
Tags for Forum Posts: chimney breast removal
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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We wanted to have exactly the same work done a few years ago. The builder’s proposal for supporting the chimney breast above was rejected by Haringey Building Control and they came back with precisely the arrangement in your picture. We gave up the idea. Instead we opened up the chimney breast to expose what would have been the recess for the old kitchen fire place - which is surprisingly large.
One note of caution - there was no damp-roof course beneath the chimney breast (which apparently was very common when these houses were constructed). It’s worth having this checked before the chimney breast is altered or removed. We didn’t know until after the works were finished and ended up having to have a very expensive chemical DPC injected.
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You’re right Tris but we made the classic mistake - we made the decision to remove it when work was already underway and the delay in getting a second opinion would have meant another few weeks of eating salads in the living room
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Permalink Reply by MillerRD on
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We discovered previous owner had removed a chimney breast downstairs and left the one above supported on the joists. We used a fantastic builder who used a structural engineer and all signed off by building control. There was some pretty serious steel involved but no impact on the floor above and unobtrusive box covering the steel downstairs. Welcome to come round and take a look.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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May I be so cheeky as to ask why you (and Michael) wanted to reatin the upstairs chimney breast?
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The chimney breast above the kitchen supports the chimney stack we share with our neighbours, so we would have had to have the support in the bedroom if we took both out. Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea
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Thanks for all your replies. My first thought was also that it looked a bit over-engineered but I'm struggling to see an obvious alternative. I'd like to avoid any column I'm not sure the existing wall is load bearing, so it may introduce new foundations plus we want kitchen units along the left wall and Building Control won't go with gallows brackets (which have their own aesthetic challenges). There's an existing wall below beam C, but I don't believe it's load bearing unless at the very left end below the breast. I was originally going to get a design done before getting builders quotes but I'm now wondering if I should get some thoughts from them before paying for a design.
Michael - thanks for the heads up on the DPC
Tris - I think beam D is picking up the edge of the breast above but I also wondered if strictly necessary as it's a good point that the internal wall at the bottom can't be load bearing as it's below the stairs. Partly it was also split to reduce length and therefore beam size, but actually why not just shift C down and lengthen B...
Miller - thanks; sounds like builder advice first might make sense but otherwise may give you a shout. Who was your builder if you don't mind me asking?
Hugh - we wanted to retain the upstairs breast because unless we remove the whole stack now, it will just shift the problem upwards to the loft and at some point in the future we may convert that, at which point it would get in the way anyway. Plus it's the only original fireplace left in the house and also trying to keep messy works from taking over the whole house, although removal had crossed my mind
All in all, more complicated than I was hoping by the sounds of it! It's a wonder anyone ever gets building work done... and I actually work in construction!
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Re leaving the upstairs, that all makes sense. Couldn’t you position any support above the first floor such that it wouldn’t get in the way of any future conversion, i.e. in the corresponding place you would put it between ground and first? Of course that doesn’t address keeping your last fireplace.
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True, although that would still result in a bulkhead in the upstairs bedroom. I might be trying to do something which defies the laws of physics.
Probably should also have noted that beam A is not particularly to do with the chimney, that's for bifolds.
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Yes, that’s more the sort of thing I had in mind; was hoping someone had got exactly that done already. The flue from the ground floor breast is on the far right of it as you look at it once it gets to first floor (I think - it’s a small boxed out area). It might mean that it’s just creeping into the bay window if you ran a beam straight across which might rule out running a beam at that point though.
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