Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Boris' new Routemaster designs unveiled
Here it is, one design is by Aston Martin, oooh that'll make all those city boyz abandon their Porsches and hop on a bus!
Here are TFLs pages on the new designs and runners up
Here are TFLs pages on the new designs and runners up
Tags for Forum Posts: TfL, buses, public, routemaster, transport
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Must confess I hated the bendy buses at first and I do think that they have caused chaos in certain parts of London (there is a stretch on New Ox St heading to Tott Ct Rd that is pure hell since they've arrived) but otherwise I've really warmed to them. I had a really lovely trip into town yesterday where my son sat transfixed looking out of the window FOR 40 MINUTES. BOTH WAYS!! This is verging on the miraculous.
But there are things about them that remain problems: 1) The % of people who don't pay is astonishing, and TFL must be losing loads (but not enough to pay for conductors I suppose). 2) Safety, particularly at the back. I'm not just thinking of pickpockets etc but fights etc - the driver is a long long way away.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Has anyone been stabbed to death at the back of a bendy bus? The top of the bus was a MUCH scarier place than the back of a bendy bus... IMHO. Also... is there any evidence of a bus driver sorting out a fight in a bus?
As for the fare dodging, unless we're prepared to say something to people we see not paying then we must leave it up to TfL and if they're happy with it then we should be too.
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Don't know John. But doubt pickpocketing/bag snatching was as common on double-deckers. Don't know the answer - the layout/design that makes them more accessible in a good way makes them more accessible in a bad way.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I am in agreement with Steve on the Routemaster. An stupid waste of money (£25.000 to a luxury car firm and a millionaire architect, and please don't say that's peanuts, its 2 teaching assistants yearly salary, just for starters) that is intended to please the car driving suburbanites who don't even use public transport. What other great London traditions from the past should we resurrect to please the Evening Standard? The debtors prison at Newgate? The stocks at Turnpike Lane for working girls?
I disliked the Routemaster for all sorts of reasons and was quite happy to see it become a heritage vehicle for the tourists and wedding parties. That there are existing, workable buses in operation already only makes it more infuriating that Boris is wasting money on such poorly thought out schemes. Why not bring back a much better form of public transport from the past, the tram? On no, he's knocked that idea on the head despite the positive effects that would have for south London, wouldn't go down well in Bromley though.
As for the bendy, I am with you all the way John. Husband and mates attacked? Top deck of an old 29. Cousin's bag riffled, the insane crush at the front of a 141, fire on bus? top deck back of a 341, fare dodging? They just used to get on the middle and run upstairs in a big crush. TFl have put people and inspectors on the bendies and they do catch people. I feel safer on a bendy than I ever did on the top deck of a 253.
How many times was I late as I watched 29 after 29 sail past me because the 20 people at the front refused to move and they were only getting off at Manor house, leaving the bus empty? Too many. How many times was I refused entry on cold nights with a buggy, even folded because I would take too long to get on? Too many. How many times did I feel like whacking people standing on the stairs as I struggled to get on and off, many many times.
I love those bendy buses. People are more accepting of the buggy, they help you on and off; they are more open, you can see the drunk before you sit down instead of struggling to the top deck and realising why that was the only seat available in a packed bus.
As for the cyclists, well the bendy bus has killed 0 people. The money spent replacing it would have paid for a lot of cycle lanes. Take a look at figures for HGVs and cyclists and start calling for freight to go on the railways to save them. Hmmm, think you'd get far in the court of Boris the King of cyclists?
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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I know I'm wandering OT.. but it is nearly Christmas.. and I am a public transport nerd..
Liz mentioned her preference for bendy buses as well as trams.. well you CAN have both all-in-one if you want:
One of our new generation of bendy trams:
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OMG... That is gorgeous. I even don't mind the colour. Not sure I'd be able to share a bus lane with it though.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Excellent post Liz.
Boris just wants this because he want's to undo everything that Ken did and was planning.
I would love to see wide scale Trams and more trains back in London and other towns and cities, The destruction of 60-70% of our rail system in the fifties was criminal.
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There was something on the BBC that Ian Hislop did on the Beeching report but I couldn't find it. Shame, it was very good. There's this now though if you're bored with christmas TV.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Thanks for that John - of aourse I knew about Beeching, but little more than the headlines. Nice piece - and by Pete Waterman of all folks.
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They are running "Ian Hislop off the rails" again on BBC4 on the 23rd of December.
23 Dec 2008, 21:00 on BBC Four
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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John, I know you'll find this surprising, but I don't agree with you about fare dodging. I don't imagine for one moment that TfL are "happy with it", but it is completely besides the point whether or not TfL are happy with it.
We should not be happy with it for a several reasons.
Firstly, in law (and this has been tested in court) this is theft. The bus operator is in the business of selling rides.
Secondly, although you seem to miss the connection, this is theft from all of us who do pay our fares, because it either forces up the fares of those who do pay or increases the public subsidy more than it would be needed otherwise (in the same way, "shrinkage" (shop-lifting) increases high-street prices to all of us). In these times, public transport needs all the support it can get. I would have thought these are fairly obvious points to anyone who is not themselves a fare-dodger.
Thirdly, that it is so easy to get away with fare-dodging, which you appear to condone, is unhealthy for society. If people, especially young people, think they can get away with this, there will be more things that they feel they can get away with (shop-lifting perhaps?). Fare-dodging is a small part of our general moral decline and breakdown of society.
The test is not whether we are prepared to say something about it. Not many of us want to risk a load of verbals or argument, a fight or worse from some anti-social fare-dodger. When I pointed out to a gentleman in front of me in a queue at Paddington railway station, that the leaflet he had just discarded on the floor would have to be picked up by someone, he clenched his fists and became hysterical screaming "shut up, shut up". He was entering a fight position and despite my much greater size, I backed off. It's not worth a fight to try to instil some morality into someone who has not been brought up properly.
Also, the test of the safety of bendy buses is not whether someone's actually been stabbed to death at the back. Is the yardstick of death the only criterion you'd allow?
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