Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Big savings needed in Haringey. Where should the savings come from?
Now the party's truly over. I've been talking for a while now about the need for local authorities to save something like 20-25% from their budgets. This evening Panorama took up the theme. It's now out there. For Haringey that'll mean savings of something like £80-100m in savings. That's huge! We're facing the biggest cuts since the 1970s. Handled badly, it will be an emergency.
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
Tags for Forum Posts: cuts, public spending cuts
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Omotn on
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This nominal openness is certainly a strange idea. Why should we not look at the account for all 12 months? Indeed look at last year's acccounts and the year before? I guess making all the original documents available is a bit of a logistical challenge, but surely the accounts themselves should be there, with a sight of the originals available on application (it seems it is necessary to apply to see even the account in August).
Is it beyond the organsiational skills of a community bulletin board to organise itself to go through these accounts with a fine toothed comb. Surely not everyone is away for the whole of August.
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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Thanks for also making the link to this post Omotn.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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BBC You & Yours; Does Local Government need reform?
Radio 4, 12:04pm, Tuesday 1st June.
The new Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Eric Pickles, will be in the studio to listen to your views and comment.
Call 03700 100 444 or email youandyours@bbc.co.uk.
Synopsis
The new government has put town halls in the front line of both cuts and reforms.
They have shaved millions off budgets and they say they intend to put citizens in control of their own lives, communities and local services by inviting them to have a greater say over council activities.
It seems likely that thousands of schools will opt out of local authority control while council tax payers will be encouraged to become involved in considering planning, transport and have the right to trigger a referrendum on policy. Local government may never be the same again.
But is this a good thing? If what goes on in our local schools or planning departments is no longer under the full control of our elected representatives does that not diminish local democracy?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I found these on the Windsor & Maidenhead (RBWM) website.
● A report on the general policy. It includes this:
"To be transparent is to be candid, open, obvious, understandable, and frank. RBWM believes that the act of transparency is a key condition and driver for the delivery of council services."
However, RBWM also makes it clear that it:
" . . . will not spend tax payers’ money on presenting or collating this data. It will often be presented in a raw state with a relevant introduction as to its origins and purpose - to allow the user to understand where this data has come from, when it was posted and what it actually represents.
Here's an example:
● Quarterly lists of suppliers paid over £500.
Would publication of such data help Haringey make wise informed decisions about savings and cuts?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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They don't need to spend money. People Like Chris at Openly Local will create apps to take it and bake it for free. Opening all data and getting it crunched in useful ways by folks like Chris will create information that can be used in very practical ways. Whether people will use it is a different matter.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Will, agree, leadership is vital. At the risk of being "nuked" again, I have to say I have long believed the mindset of those in the council needs to change. But there is no sign or precedent for this.
The majority group trumpeted that they had frozen council tax increases, and it was claimed that that would not affect Front Line services. When the council incautiously deposited £37,000,000 in Iceland bank accounts (still frozen), it was also said that that would not affect front line services. It is remarkable what can be lost (or not gained) and still leave services visible to the public apparently unscathed.
The undertaking not to increase council tax was made easier by the rising income from CPZs and parking fines (many millions) – on which there is no cap.
Regardless of how much the council raises from parking fines, on which they becoming more dependent, there is of course a requirement to find big savings. Since all spending has perforce been "approved" by the council, the council is least well-positioned to nominate savings.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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From a very quick look at those Windsor figures (halfways down the A's) one thing jumps out - hundreds of payments to private companies doing what used to be within the Council remit. School transport, care of young people, elder care.... ie all those services privatised in the past 20-30 years (I is a long-memoried woman). Now I'm all for small companies being able to find work with the local authority, (disclaimer: I used to get enough freelance work to live on, from several London LA's) but a private company has to make a profit. So if the work were done in-house, how much of a saving could be made?
This of course takes us back to the other thread re only employing 'the best', to prevent a job with the Council being seen as a doss. Does selling off a service mean the people who work for it don't spend all day with one window open on Facebook?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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wages + benefits(pensions?) + costs > wages + benefits(pensions?) + costs + profit
Huh?
You get a cheaper job done when outsourcing because of competition driving down prices/wages but you might not get a better job done and in the case of cleaning in hospitals you get a really crap job done (Florence Nightingale was obsessed with cleanliness, companies are obsessed with maximising profit).
It all depends on who you want to have that money more, some hard working entrepreneur or the cleaners.
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wages + benefits(pensions?) + costs (full time , permanent council employee ) >
the cost of hiring someone only when you need him/her
this should drive out inefficiency
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Oh dear, what does that person do when you don't "need" them?
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For some people part-time work and temporary work suits them fine. They may prefer it. I accept that for others it may be all they can get and would prefer full time work.
The problem with employing people in the public sector when they aren't really needed, is that its a slippery slope.
In the Soviet Union officially there was "full" employment. The Russian factory workers used to joke "we pretend to work and the bosses pretend to pay us!". In the capitalist model, state employees are paid in hard currency, which in the long run comes from taxes on the private sector which creates the wealth in the first place.
If you keep going on creating artificial, not-wholely-needed jobs, sooner or later you endanger the goose the laid the golden egg. That broadly is where we find ourselves now.
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