At last - a Turkish Restaurant for Harringay

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Pat on December 16, 2016 at 9:32

FFS, that's like complaining that another Chineses restaurant is opening in Gerrard Street or another Vietnamese restaurant is opening on Kinngsland Rd. What a bunch of middle class white moaners.

Permalink Reply by PaulG on December 16, 2016 at 9:37

Ha ha! It isn't really though

Permalink Reply by 1vut8bf3om5m9 on December 16, 2016 at 11:36

Capitalism works exactly the opposite way. Competition is a good thing. Those with inferior product, service, etc will be destroyed when there is choice. The Green Lanes Turkish restaurants (at least the two I've tried Hala and Gokyuzu) blow away the rather reputable, but lacking in competition Gallipoli on Upper Street.

The appeal of Green Lanes is like that of Las Vegas--more casinos is better for everyone, again thanks to capitalism. They try to be more visually appealing (Bellagio, Paris, NY NY, etc) or distinguish themselves to attract customers in ways that would never be found at a random Indian casino (single deck blackjack, $2 minimum bet, more favourable odds, etc etc).

If competition were *bad* for Green Lanes, then by that logic the (no competition) the Indian casino structure (blackjack from a 5 deck shoe, crappy odds, high minimum bet) would control in Vegas. Not the case. Capitalism works everywhere it's tried and Green Lanes to me is one of the greatest streets of pure capitalism on earth.

Permalink Reply by Antoinette on December 16, 2016 at 12:09

I agree - I think it's a testament to the success of Green Lanes generally that commercial properties never stay empty for long, whether they be Turkish restaurants or the new Savers in the old Disney store.  Until recently I worked in Ilford and you should see how run down and dilapidated the High Street looks with all it's empty commercial properties going to rack and ruin.  The same is true of parts of Tottenham.  We should be thankful that this isn't happening to GL.

Permalink Reply by matt on December 16, 2016 at 12:40

Absolutely, GL is incredibly successful as a high street. One only has to look at WG to see an example of a struggling high street; recently BHS changed to Poundworld .... M&S to a temp bazaar. 

And then there's Turnpike Lane, predominantly asian run businesses with some good restaurants & food shops among them. Further along we have Hornsey High St, struggling a bit at times but seems to be trying to emulate Crouch End to a certain extent. Shiso is good for Japanese restaurant food.

We're spoilt for choice around here!

Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on December 16, 2016 at 12:53

Even though I commented (up thread) on the proliferation of Turkish restaurants  - full disclosure - not white not middle class - I'd have to agree  it is better to have a vibrant high street.  You only have to look at what's happened to Wood Green high street to see how it can go wrong, looking  abit sorry to say the least.  West Green rd used to be like this but a lot of new businesses have opened up in the last few years, and not just fried chicken shops  / bookies.  I'm hoping this trend will continue all the way up to the top of Ducketts Common.  Then we really will have a destination area

Permalink Reply by Pat on December 16, 2016 at 12:09

I'm Chinese,

While Gerrard Street and Chinatown attract tourist, it is also a place for the community. We also had that at Oriental City until the developers moved in. Maybe the restaurant cluster in Green Lanes is not aimed at the residents but at the wider Turkish community in London, as evidenced by the majority who frequent the restaurants. I love Chinese food but would never say that Chinatown is overprovided with Chinese restaurants. What is bad for Chinatown is the increase in rent allowing generic, bland multinational coffee shops to replace Chinese business. I live in Green Lanes and I see nothing wrong with providing a meeting place for communities beyond Green Lanes.

Regarding the racist comment, let me know when you have been chased down the streets by skinheads or had someone come up to you in a club and ask your partner why they were going out with a chink and I will sympathise.

Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on December 16, 2016 at 10:28

If it was the 20th nail bar or pound shop opening on GL, wouldn't you heave a bit of a sigh? The problem with the saturation of a street with one type of business is that it makes an entire area vulnerable to the whims of the market or consumer fashions. When the property bubble burst in the 80s some streets were a wildernesses of boarded up estate agent offices. I recall when Camden Town had lots of Greek Cypriot restaurants. When the Greek Cypriot population moved on to other parts of London they whithered and died with nothing taking by their place for a long time

Permalink Reply by Cllr Emina Ibrahim on December 16, 2016 at 23:12

Hi Michael

I am notorious for moaning about poundshops and charity shops because generally it's a symptomatic of a failing high street. The restaurants on Green Lanes are not they are symptomatic of a recognition of a market for a particular product. Not everyone seeks the same experience as others in a restaurant. People enjoy the food and seek out the atmosphere and vibe of Green Lanes and that maybe frustrating to those who don't consider it their cup of tea. The problem with comparing it to poundshops and charity shops is that no one says "omg not another white middle class run national charity opening on our high street". People are clear they do not want more businesses run by a particular ethnic group because I have seen "not another Turkish supermarket uproar too". I am in no doubt that is not the intention but we need to be mindful that it can be the effect. Perhaps we should have a policy to prevent the proliferation of Turkish restaurants by placing ethnicity and culinary direction as a pre qualification on planning and lucensing applications? Or maybe not !! Yes I think you will agree definitely not

Permalink Reply by John D on December 16, 2016 at 23:36

I remember someone on here complaining that the Queen's Head pub had been replaced by

" a Turkish furniture shop " as if that were worse than an English furniture shop.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on December 16, 2016 at 23:45

For goodness sake, why make this about class or ethnicity. It's got nothing to do with it. You see the same virtual sighs on the Crouch End website about yet another coffee shop. It's just about having too much of a certain thing on a local high street. For my part I've already made it clear I wouldn't want a surfeit of Italian or French. By the same token, I wouldn't want an overload of burger or fish and chip shops or health food shops.

I favour diversity. That means diverse in every respect. Time after time research has shown that a diverse retail offer contributes to the social well-being of local communities. As far as I'm aware the debate on this aspect of the health of our high streets is done and dusted. Diverse is best 

So please y'all, stop wagging those fingers. Let's welcome the good businesses we have but aim for something that's as diverse as economics can make it. 

Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on December 17, 2016 at 7:31

I think you've missed the point I'm trying to make Emine. It's to do with businesses opening offering identical products, whatever those products may be. As I said in my post, it simply doesn't make good economic sense. Remember the huge surge in Internet cafes, often next door to one another. One by one they closed because eventually there just wasn't enough business to support them. That is both to the detriment of the businesses themselves and the communities around the high street.

A planning authority cannot, and should not, be able to decide on the type of cuisine or ethnicity of ownership when granting A2 permission. But Haringey have a duty to make sure that it's planning policies help to deliver a healthy and sustainable local economy. So the issue turns full circle. Is a high street the increasingly has one type of business really sustainable in the long run?

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