Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
At a loss for words
Why ????
Tags for Forum Posts: greening harringay, street trees, trees
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I think Turnpike Lane Bus station is quite attractive and compares well with Stephen's tram photo.
I like the way the modern stance echoes the lines of the older building.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Yes John I like the style too, although I would say there's not really sufficient bad weather protection.. wouldn't you?
BTW, I used to collect bus-numbers here (complete with my Ian Allan book) in the early 60s
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There is a shelter area, which also protects from the wind. There could be more seats, perhaps.
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What I meant was an overall roof.. you still get wet when getting onto a bus.. I don't understand why the trend is away from overall rooves/roofs (see Victoria & here) and why they weren't replaced..
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Permalink Reply by Heike Meffert on
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Stephen,
over here in Germany, and I suppose it's just the same in Berlin, there are no bus stops with an overall roof. You will always get wet when getting on or off a bus since you cannot open your umbrella so close to it. I've been to many German cities and it was just the same everywhere. What I found out in England is that there are not even benches at bus stops - only ... bars ... This shelter John shows is luxurious!
I said it earlier - except for bus stops at main stations or frequented spots down town THIS is the best you can get:
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We were talking about bus stations that generally have much larger numbers of passengers to deal with than ordinary bus stops.. - why bother building something that only does half the job.. ? The bus station concerned at Turnpike Lane was given an overall roof covering in 1968, when the flat-fare bus system was set up. The bus station has now been extended and the roof has been replaced by the buildings show by John.. A retrograde step.
The point is, most public amenities and local authority investment in the U.K. are provided 'on the cheap' - that's the way it's done and that certainly isn't the German way and that's quite obvious from all photos that have been shown.
BTW, I can see how dirty the city is on your photo and how much litter and dog poo there is.. :o) -
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OMG Stephen - where in Good Heavens do you see dog poo ... ? :-)
Do you really think that Germany wouldn't do it the cheap way? I don't know how it is in Berlin; however, in the cities I know even the bus stop shown here is one of the better ones. Usually they're poorly maintained, the glass is broken (splinters not being cleared away for months), the seats are spoiled or broken (not being cleaned or repaired for months), the lights are broken (which means that you have to fear for two things by night: a) not being seen by the bus driver, b) not beeing seen when someone gets importunate ...).
I don't know which fotos you're referring to, Stephen, when you say that this was not the German way. I think that the only "nice" one is the one above - the others aren't at all. Not mine.
Stephen, can't we just drop the bus station matter - at least here? I think the original idea of this discussion was a torn-out tree ... Maybe we should open a separate discussion on bus stations and how they are built and maintained - in England and overseas. A further subject could be the security side of poorly maintained bus stations (see above). Furthermore, a very interesting issue is public toilets, don't you think?
Nevertheless, thank you for your information about Turnpike Lane bus station! -
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Heike you need to ask Matt about the public toilets.. that's one of his burning issues..
Luckily, I think you are on very good terms with him.. -
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What makes you think that, Stephen? He replied only once and that's all. I don't even know him ... ;-)
I'd love to discuss further matters here - and I want all issues to be taken care of until I'm moving over :D -
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This is outrageous! I cannot believe that people do something like this. If it was vandalism then you have one or more very sick persons living in your neighbourhood; if it was an accident then you have either highly negligent and ignorant or cowardly and spineless people in your neighbourhood. Either way - it's a shame!
Nevertheless, this is not only a British issue. You wouldn't imagine what some people do over here in Germany if they have too much time at their disposal. Ignorance and disrespect are a serious problem and it is a problem everywhere in the world. It is our duty as responsible individuals to act as role models and that's (unfortunately) all we can do because directly going about it (if they cannot be caught in the act) will only cause the culprits' getting even more fun out of their deeds.
It's like the baby's constantly dropping the pacifier - as long as you pick it up and return it the baby enjoys it; ignore it and show the baby that nothing is supposed to be dropped at all and it will quit it - and hopefully learn.
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My reply to LIZ:
How do we Germans deal with waste? Waste management over here is a willy-and-wonty thing. On one hand we have four different wheely bins: residual waste, bio waste, paper, glass – along with the so-called yellow bag for plastic, styrofoam, wrappings. The collection of these wheelies and bags is paid directly to the council by either individuals (such as owners of single family homes) or by landlords who collect the fees from their tenants.
On the other hand rumour has it that once carried to a landfill all these different wastes are put together again – which is not too far fetched. Recycling is expensive. Thus, in Germany we walk on three tracks: a little bit of recycling, a little bit of putting all the stuff together again, a little bit of delivering waste to low-wage-countries where recycling is a job opportunity for the masses and we get paid for our waste.
Germans are to separate their domestic waste, to make use of public recycle containers. This places a problem for many households since waste separation not only means using all these different bins in their back-yards; it also means to have different waste bins in their apartments and flats. Otherwise, they would have to go down to the back-yard for each and every item. Of course just a minor problem if you live on the 30th floor.
Anyway, the fees for waste collection – different for each sort of wheely bin and, additionally, depending on their size – are the same whether or not we separate our domestic waste. Disadvantage: The bin for residual waste is overflown with non-residual waste and might not be collected because the lid can’t be closed. Yes, German binmen are not obliged to touch wheely bins when the lids can’t be closed. That’s a fact.
In 2008, German households paid between 118 and 404 € for their waste collection, depending on in which German federal country they lived in. Apart from the fact that the differences are immense – there is more to pay if there is additional waste: Additional 70-litre residual waste bags cost 3.60 €, 140-litre garden waste bags 3.10 €. Taking your stuff to a landfill costs money, bulky waste is free once per half-year per household, further collections are charged by cubicmetre. Freebies are: bags for nappies during the first 18 months and the collection of special waste by hazardous-waste trucks four times a year. Supermarkets have to provide free battery collection and chemists are to take back medicaments free of charge.
On a more or less regular basis used clothes collections take place and there are several drop-off-boxes available throughout the city. Used books may be taken to a public used-books-cabinet where everyone has access to.
Well, that’s how we Germans deal with waste. However, waste management over here is something very, very personal. Shoes or medicaments in a residual waste bin are not uncommon, old printers or oil cans in a public bin aren’t either. Individually created, additional landfills beside the motorways still exist and will always exist. Washing machines, monitors, old cabinets (or the remainings of them) will always be present in flower beds, on playgrounds and on walkways. There will always be people who just can’t make it to call the council for a bulky waste collection or who fail to take their car to the junkyard.
Now – is that so much different from how it is anywhere in the world?
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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There are three aspects to this I think.
Dealing with the first, how councils get rid of rubbish generated. Rumour also had it that much of our recycling ended up in landfill and/or in countries in the developing world where it was dumped. So I did some asking about Haringey.
First of all, some recycling will be sent to landfill if people 'contaminate' it with non recyclable items. This is not necessary done on purpose - people are still confused about what can be recycled- but it means that a lorry load may be rejected if it contains the wrong items. This is where I think the stories about recycling being a waste of time because it just gets chucked in landfill come from.
If the lorry load is okay, it is sorted and much of it is recycled as low grade material e.g. glass is used in road building (I know, like we need more of those!) in this country and some goes to places like China. Recycled material is a commodity like coal or oil and prices fluctuate. When prices go down, companies do sometimes store the product until they improve.
White goods must be collected for free and recycled to obey European directives - again people are not always aware of this and think that they can't get rid of it without paying money - so dump it.
Electrical goods/bulky items are a problem because if you don't have transport, finding a place to recycle them meant a trip out or money paid, However, their parts are reused and large items are refubished by a local charity so it is worth the effort. We do need to review how we help people with this here. More community collections such as once a month might help but it would cost of course.
So we don't do badly in terms of how we actually get rid of things. In truth, Britain has no choice, we are running out of places for landfill and European directives need to be followed.
There are small things that can help that you see in other countries. Split bins in public places, decent dog poo bins, regular cleaning of streets and bins, the banning of plastic bags. People like Alan and I want to find out if there are other ways which work better. It's about learning, but not saying another country is better or worse or about knocking this one.
Which leads me to the second part about which I agree whole heartedly with you. Personal responsibility for keeping your patch clean is essential. Changing attitudes and encouraging people to be responsible is vital. I believe that a small minority will always commit acts of environmental crime. They should be heavily fined if caught. There are also a large number of folk who wouldn't dream of dropping litter/dumping/vandalism.
There are however people who fall between these two extremes. They don't know what they should do and are not sure how to find out about getting rid of large goods. They see bags put by the side of the road by roadsweepers and think it is okay to add another. They drop cig litter because its such a small thing. They rationalise their behaviour as 'my little bottle won't hurt' if I drop it in the gutter. I have even heard the attitude expressed that dropping litter keeps people in work, after all they pay council tax to have it cleared up. These people need to reached through incentives and making it very easy for them to do the right thing. Again, people hate to be preached at so how do we give them the feel good factor when they do it right? Do other countries/cities have interesting ways of doing it?
Finally the ideal is that we simply do not generate the waste at all. Stop drinking bottled water, avoid excess packaging, compost or use the organic waste bins provided. Pressure should also be on business which still generates enormous amounts of waste compared to households to do better - that won't happen in this country where government fears to regulate business, unlike other countries in Europe- here, I think, other countries have done better than us by insisting rather than allowing self regulation which have we have seen elsewhere isn't very successful.
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