Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

At a loss for words

Why ????

Tags for Forum Posts: greening harringay, street trees, trees

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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on April 1, 2010 at 21:20

approx 1,000 km thank you very much... outside of the aquarium you might say.. so able to see many things you all take for granted..

BTW, I understand you're not a Harringay resident either.. tut tut, at least I lived there once..

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 1, 2010 at 21:52

I've had a flat just to the west of the railway tracks for nearly a quarter century. Geographically, that puts me closer to the centre of Harringay Ward than the northern or southern ends. Hope someone's keeping an equally watchful eye on the trees of Berlin (just more blah blah blah)

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Permalink Reply by Liz on April 1, 2010 at 22:17

Ca suffit les gars...or you'll both be wearing a Meldrew on your jammies.

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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on April 2, 2010 at 16:19

Now you asked for this! Cleaner Streets
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/sets/72157605356138332/show/

And come to mention it Clive, I'm nearly always out looking at trees
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/sets/72157605192505168/show/

Occasionally, the odd toilet too!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/sets/72157609075897552/show/

and as it's Easter...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/sets/72157623680513752/show/

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on April 2, 2010 at 16:28

Berlin artist's reply to unjust criticism? Keep the photos flowing, Dmitri. In the new Council, let's hope Haringey welcomes good ideas from everywhere!

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 2, 2010 at 20:15

I've been to Berlin a long time ago but what impresses me most about your interesting photos is the near absence of litter. I have to say it makes many London streets look like a pig sty. Which is offensive to pigs. My flat is a pig sty but I never drop litter.

Other countries also, like Japan and New Zealand, to name two at random, don't have the careless littering that blights London. There does seem to be – wholly regrettably IMO – a general acceptance that some people will drop litter and the only thing that can be done is to use general taxes to go around picking it up after them. There are better ways of spending our taxes and this is a preventable problem.

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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on April 2, 2010 at 22:42

I don't have an answer to the why there is so much litter in Harringay and in London in general and not in Berlin and Germany, although I have to say that Berlin is quite low down the list on the cleanest German towns and cities..

What always strikes me when I go back to London are two things, the rubbish inside Underground trains and the amount of rubbish left out on the streets (I don't mean litter). The sanctioned leaving outside of plastic sacks, does IMO, make it much easier for anyone to dump anything (see Liz's and Alan's endless postings on this subject).
The problem seems to me to be that there are often just no facilities for businesses and shops to locate dustbins. This just wouldn't be allowed here. Every building here must have a designated refuse area, which the refuse men must be able reach without contact with the owners.. each round has keys for all the locked areas and the different types of refuse are collected on different days of the week.

Obviously, the more litter that lies about encourages others to drop even more. We do of course have litter, everywhere does, things get dropped, thrown about, but not to the extent that you have and I think it is dealt with differently here?
For one thing, refuse collectors are respected, get lots of publicity, have pride in and do their jobs well. More important, I expect, is the fact that refuse is collected and re-cycled Berlin-wide and not Borough by Borough, making the provision of facilities more efficient. This is run by the elected Berlin Senate.

We've just had a spring-cleaning campaign to clear away the remains of winter before Easter and it has been more or less successful. People have been offering to help clean on their streets. (see pictures on link and
BTW the keys can also be seen here:) http://www.berlinrecycling.de/

When there are demos or street festivals and BTW there are many more than in London, things are always cleared up and swept away before 08:00 the next morning. Friends and visitors are always amazed at the efficiency of it all. It also, I'm afraid to say, is to do with upbringing and respect for other people's property.

Transport Rubbish
All of our city railway lines (U-Bahn and S-Bahn) have cleaners at one end or another, who go through the trains during the turnaround time. So trains are kept continually clean all day.

Cans are virtually non-existent in Germany since we have had the deposit scheme, although the factory for manufacturing the majority of cans for use in Britain is located in Berlin. All beer, water and soft drink bottles also have deposits on them and retailers are required by law to take them all back. So bottles and cans just don't get dropped, because they are worth money. At festivals etc., people collect those left about, as the young ladies kissing in the cleaner streets photo set demonstrates.. the sign on their collection trolley BTW says: saving up for our wedding!
Oh, and I nearly forgot, take-away food is only allowed to be sold in paper-based containers..

So a few ideas from outside the aquarium :o) on what might be able to be done to counter litter/rubbish problems... and why do I know that Alan (and Liz) will come up with plenty of yes, buts?

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 2, 2010 at 23:20

Brian Haley had as a goal for our council that it be the greenest in London. Someone remarked in an AA to Cllr Haley that this was a modest ambition. They were right: what a pitifully low aim. I am sure Stephen there is a great deal that Haringey could learn from the German experience with rubbish – and recycling.

As in all places around the world, it would also help if people didn't drop litter in the first place ... I would have stocks in Finsbury Park and encourage the non-litter dropping public to throw rotten fruit at the litterers and dumpers (to be collected afterwards and disposed of appropriately, of course).

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on April 3, 2010 at 1:14

There are no: 'Yes buts', Stephen. We just need determination to achieve it.

We'll succeed if we aren't afraid to take risks and experiment. (Sometimes failing; but learning even from failure.) If we invite and try out the best ideas from our residents and intelligent go-ahead staff. And - crucially - 'borrowing' good ideas from everywhere and anywhere. (And especially from outside the stale air of the River Park House bunker.)

We need to be candid about what succeeds and what doesn't.
And no more Haley-style pretence about launching 'new' waste initiatives which are really old ones repackaged.

Above all, it needs the Council to engage with residents and businesses - taking as many people as possible with us. After all, turning waste into value is a fascinating and - yes- exciting project. And part of trying to save our planet.