Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Another try at a Wightman Bus?
There's been plenty of controversy on other discussions recently about the Wightman Bus..
See here!
We all know them, buses not necessary, too big, too noisy, road not wide enough, gone fifty years without one - all these remarks are commonly voiced in most areas where a new service is planned. Most of the fears are unfounded, but they need to be faced and proven to be unfounded.... Many residents are against a bus, but don't have any positive ideas on how we can improve the lifestyle of some of Harringay's longest living residents. (how many people signed Eddie's petition?)
That Wightman Road is too narrow for Public Transport is also a fallacy. Ask HoL member Alan Stanton.. The local 318 service runs along streets in his Tottenham Hale Ward that are narrower than Wightman Road and have been doing so for over ten years without problem - well at least I think so.. Alan?
We tried in 2009 to get a W1 Wightman Bus service introduced, but the idea was killed off by Boris and TfL. Perhaps we were aiming too high back then? Planning a daily 05:00 - 24:00 service was probably too much. Perhaps it would be better now not be so frivolous as to want a 'proper service' but more of a community service.
What is needed is way to transport the elderly (but not only) down to Green Lanes Shops and back up the hill (with shopping) to eliminate the walk up and down it.
So I'd like to propose a Community one-way loop service - Perhaps to be called The Harringay Circle running from Turnpike Lane Station >up> Turnpike Lane >up> Wightman Road >down>Endymion Road >down> Sainsbury's>down> Green Lanes >up> Turnpike Lane..- public journeys would be allowed over the Turnpike Lane Station stop to enable people with shopping to travel back from Green Lanes up the Hill without the need of changing buses.
I expect two small buses of W5 size would be adequate at first - the service doesn't need to start that early - perhaps from 08:00 until 20:00 on Mondays to Saturdays, 2 or 3 bph. It may also be possible to have a 'stop by request - hail and ride' service along Wightman - to avoid planting bus stops on the sections that don't already have them. The one-way service would also cut down the amount of vehicles and journeys that need to run.
This service would be similar to the 812 in Islington or the 393 in Hackney. Where the funds are to come from is not known yet :o) but as we have just seen, there is still money in the pot for Boris' pet ideas New Buses with Platforms and replacement vehicles for the Bendy-Buses.
So maybe OAE and John might find this proposal interesting and want to have another go?
See here!
We all know them, buses not necessary, too big, too noisy, road not wide enough, gone fifty years without one - all these remarks are commonly voiced in most areas where a new service is planned. Most of the fears are unfounded, but they need to be faced and proven to be unfounded.... Many residents are against a bus, but don't have any positive ideas on how we can improve the lifestyle of some of Harringay's longest living residents. (how many people signed Eddie's petition?)
That Wightman Road is too narrow for Public Transport is also a fallacy. Ask HoL member Alan Stanton.. The local 318 service runs along streets in his Tottenham Hale Ward that are narrower than Wightman Road and have been doing so for over ten years without problem - well at least I think so.. Alan?
We tried in 2009 to get a W1 Wightman Bus service introduced, but the idea was killed off by Boris and TfL. Perhaps we were aiming too high back then? Planning a daily 05:00 - 24:00 service was probably too much. Perhaps it would be better now not be so frivolous as to want a 'proper service' but more of a community service.
What is needed is way to transport the elderly (but not only) down to Green Lanes Shops and back up the hill (with shopping) to eliminate the walk up and down it.
So I'd like to propose a Community one-way loop service - Perhaps to be called The Harringay Circle running from Turnpike Lane Station >up> Turnpike Lane >up> Wightman Road >down>Endymion Road >down> Sainsbury's>down> Green Lanes >up> Turnpike Lane..- public journeys would be allowed over the Turnpike Lane Station stop to enable people with shopping to travel back from Green Lanes up the Hill without the need of changing buses.
I expect two small buses of W5 size would be adequate at first - the service doesn't need to start that early - perhaps from 08:00 until 20:00 on Mondays to Saturdays, 2 or 3 bph. It may also be possible to have a 'stop by request - hail and ride' service along Wightman - to avoid planting bus stops on the sections that don't already have them. The one-way service would also cut down the amount of vehicles and journeys that need to run.
This service would be similar to the 812 in Islington or the 393 in Hackney. Where the funds are to come from is not known yet :o) but as we have just seen, there is still money in the pot for Boris' pet ideas New Buses with Platforms and replacement vehicles for the Bendy-Buses.
So maybe OAE and John might find this proposal interesting and want to have another go?
Tags for Forum Posts: Buses, TfL, Transport, Wightman Road, public transport
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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The following posts have been moved from another conversation:
Reply by Kavitha 1 day ago
Total opposition from me for any bus route along Wightman Road. Refuse vehicles and emergency services are a necessity and there's barely space for them on that road! Having a bus route there would make the road even more congested and noisy
Reply by StephenBln 22 hours ago
two fingers up to the elderly and those with kids and no car..
Let em Walk..!! or push!!
and BTW, a bus IS a necessity for some you know!
Reply by Kavitha 10 hours ago
StephenBIn please stop with the snide remarks when people express opinions that differ from your own! I don't want a bus along Wightman Road for the reasons I have stated here and elsewhere. I am allowed to express my views and so are others even we don't agree with you.
Reply by JeremyS 9 hours ago
Well said, Kavitha. I'll second that. Absolutely you should have a right to express your opinions without those sort of remarks. (Luckily there's a minority of people only who behave like that).
Reply by StephenBln 7 hours ago
Just because they are not your opinions.. it's a bit rich to call them snide..
because that's exactly what you are saying.. no buses for the elderly or people with children, who don't own a car.. or how do you suggest they get around..?
I could have also said your remarks were snide or nimby even, but I didn't.. and of course you are allowed to express your opinions, but don't be surprised if others don't agree.. I came to terms with that long ago..
Reply by Alison P 7 hours ago
" .. no buses for the elderly or people with children, who don't own a car.. or how do you suggest they get around..?"
I guess they'll carry on doing what they do now and walk down the road to Green Lanes.
Reply by StephenBln 7 hours ago
correct Alison.. but may I adjust your comment a bit?:
I guess they'll carry on doing what they have to do now and walkdownup theroadHill to from Green Lanes.
That's why OAE and John McM were both trying to improve their lot.
Reply by Kavitha 7 hours ago
I don't think for one moment that everyone should agree with me, just that we should be free to express our opinions without people like yourself sneering and being patronising when we dare to disagree. Also I have not at any point said no buses for the elderly or people with children, I have just voiced my objections to buses on Wightman Road so I would prefer not to have my comments taken out of context.
Reply by StephenBln 2 hours ago
you wrote:
Total opposition from me for any bus route along Wightman Road. Refuse vehicles and emergency services are a necessity and there's barely space for them on that road! Having a bus route there would make the road even more congested and noisy
Total opposition means in my book no buses - therefore the elderly and those with kids won't be able to benefit (a word that doesn't find favour with the coalition these days) from any new service..
Refuse vehicles and emergency services are a necessity... and so are buses, especially for those who are elderly or not well off..
but never mind, because after reading your comments again, I actually think this is the most important bit : Having a bus route there would make the road even more congested and noisy OK, I understand. It would have one great benefit though - less estate agents signs all over the place..
Reply by John McMullan 10 minutes ago
Total opposition from me for any bus route along Wightman Road
In big cities in Europe they have some lovely little busses quietly and efficiently moving along roads like Wightman Rd and residents consider it a boon not a burden.
How are those concrete mixers from London Concrete BTW? So many of them an hour that factory must really be coming along. Of course they'll all go through Crouch End once it's built...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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There are plenty of empty TfL dial-a-ride busses that I see in the mornings around the ladder. These are smaller than the W5 but driven by far more
maddetermined bus drivers. I don't think the size of the bus or the frequency or anything like that is the issue, it's a political thing. There are not YET enough votes in it.
I would be sad to see Campsbourne ignored. That area is all the more tragic for being LIKE parts of Tottenham but surrounded by the wealth of Crouch End, the beauty of Alexandra Palace and the awesomeness of the Great North Eastern Railway. Perhaps when they have the option of jobs at Sainsbury's within walking distance it will be less of a problem.
Steve it's time to roll with the punches and accept that Dave's Big Community would "run their own friggin bus".
Driver £250 pounds a day (do I hear any lower offers?), 1/3 more drivers than busses
Busses 3 @ ~ £8000 each
Maintenance 10% cost of bus per annum
Fuel variable but finger in the air: 25mpg, £1.2 per litre, 4 miles per journey, 3 journeys per hour, 10 hours per day.
So: capital (£24000), personnel (£365000), maintenance (£2400), fuel (£250000)
£24000 up front and £617,400 a year.
I bet TfL could do it cheaper though....
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And I bet there are black cabs who could do it even cheaper....
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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John.. don't misunderstand me.. I'm all for the first route.. as you say, not yet enough votes in it.. But a new bus route is a bit like planting a seedling tree. Once there, it could soon become part of the community and can over the years grow and expand. It could also dry up and die due to too little use.
That's why it might worth starting off small scale..
Sainsbury's - perhaps they could be persuaded to pay a 'keep your car at home' or a 'spend more than 10 pounds ride for free' subsidy.. ?
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Let me know how you all get on so I can make sure I protest as much as I possibly can against this idea.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Sorry, Steve, I didn't spot this post before now. You asked me about the 318 Hopper bus in Tottenham Hale. Measuring with Google Earth, the carriageway in, say, Rosebery Avenue is about 7.30 metres. But the road width with parked cars on both sides will be far less.
Even so, the 318 route works. Although not without some problems. The main one is of course, parking - especially when drivers park near corners and block line-of-sight.
The route seems especially helpful for elderly and disabled people. And people needing to go to and from North Middlesex Hospital.
Of course, not everyone is happy. I recall some residents objecting because they: ". . . have a car and don't need a bus, thank-you-very-much". Though at least one person reconsidered when I pointed out that their teenagers were able to get home in the evening and stop almost outside their home.
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Thanks for replying Alan!
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