Wood Green Consultation now available on-line, by email or by post

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on June 11, 2008 at 17:08

I just chased up Deborah Hogan - she needs to get hold of someone in planning and will get back to me tomorrow. Interestingly, she agreed withe me that the consultation portal is "somewhat overwhelming".

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Permalink Reply by TTTH on June 12, 2008 at 10:06

I spoke to an Urban Design Consultant yesterday about the A105/ Wood Green Bus only route idea. He said that it was a good opportunity for a group like ours to come up with some really creative ideas with the Council on traffic abatement in our area, such as Home Zones (google Highbury New Park) and surprisingly this would even be possible on Wightman/ Alroy Road. The good thing is that collectively we are on the case.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on June 12, 2008 at 10:10

Completely agree about seeing the thing as an opportunity.

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Permalink Reply by Gareth on June 12, 2008 at 11:48

Agreed. Far from doom and gloom, this could be a huge opportunity :)

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Permalink Reply by Liz on June 12, 2008 at 12:31

I received the answer re finding comments, I also inquired about finding comments on a closed consutation. There were NONE online for the Housing SPD and 15 overall. Surprising given the strength of feeling about housing in the borough.
I wonder if there would have been any comments on the Wood Green SPD had not HOL pushed the issue of the consultation. If no one is using the Limehouse portal, one wonders how much it costs to set up and maintain and whether this is value for money and, indeed, adequately fulfils the obligation to involve residents in decision making .

Thank you for your email.
As you are fully aware the consultation on the Housing SPD closed on the 29th May. We received 15 representations; however none of these were made via our online consultation tool – limehouse.
We are currently going through the paper representations and these will be uploaded onto limehouse in due course. Once these comments have been processed you will be available to view them online. Paper copies are available to view at the Planning reception 639 High Road, Tottenham, N17 8BD.

I also note that you have made comments on the Wood Green SPD. Again, once this consultation has closed and all comments have been processed you will be available to view them.

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Permalink Reply by Alison P on June 12, 2008 at 15:34

Reading the reply to your email I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The idea of uploading (that's a grand word for typing, folks) written comments onto a website designed to make it easier for people to engage with local decision making (which itself received no comments)??? Surely that is a sign that someting isn't quite working in the consultation process? Who did you email Liz?

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on June 12, 2008 at 15:38

Well Deborah Hogan just called me back and gave me pretty much the same answer as Liz had, with the added info that the time at which comments will be viewable will be about one month after the consultation closes.

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Permalink Reply by TTTH on June 12, 2008 at 15:50

Look what I found - for those who prefer snail mail:

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/wood_green_town_centre_spd_consultation_...

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on June 12, 2008 at 15:58

............and those who prefer to have their opinions (or onions, as I nearly wrote) boxed into neat easy-to-ignore Councilthink format.

I meant to add in my last post that comments added via the simple format in the WG microsite (2 above) are treated in exactly the same way as commenst added to the portal.

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Permalink Reply by Alison P on June 12, 2008 at 16:32

I've just sent this to Cllr Kaushika Amin who is in charge of Enterprise and Regeneration at Haringey (this falls under her remit). Will let you know if I hear anything useful...

Dear Councillor Amin

I have just responded to the online consultation about the Wood Green Town
Centre Draft SPD, via the Limehouse Portal set up for the purpose.

I wanted to let you know how frustrating I found this process. The system
itself takes a while to understand and navigate, as does the fact that
comments have to be made in relation to specific points (eg 3.1, 3.2 etc).
But I found it particularly frustrating when I realised that not only did
my comments have to be 'approved' (and that if they were not approved they
would be returned as 'inadmissable') but that no comments at all would be
visible until the consultation process was over.

I have two concerns about this decision.

1. The website is set up in such a way that you assume you will see
comments. There are tabs everywhere called 'view comments' - when you
click on them and are told there are no comments, your only assumption has
to be that nobody has commented. This certainly calls into question the
design and layout of the website. But more importantly I think it sends
out entirely the wrong message about such a key development in the heart
of our neighbourhoods - that nobody is very interested in commenting. I
doubt it encourages anyone who is looking at the website to comment
either.

2. Surely people SHOULD be able to see what others have said? Even if
people's comments need to be vetted (and I can see that this might be
sensible to weed out entirely inappropriate comments), isn't it right that people can look at what other people think about this important development? I am interested in the fact that comments on planning permission decisions are made entirely public before the decision is made - yet this does not apply here (when one could argue that less personal issues are at stake).

I hope you agree with me that local communities and their views are essentially important when issues like the Wood Green draft SPD are being discussed. I'm afraid that I don't think we are being given enough encouragement to do this, and that too much reliance is being placed on cumbersome and hard to navigate websites that only a small minority will ever access.

I do look forward to hearing your views.

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Permalink Reply by Alison P on June 22, 2008 at 20:54

Hooray, I've just had my second acknowledgement of my email! But no opinions yet, just this ...

"Thank you for your email of the 13th June 2008 which I received on the 17th June 2008.

I have asked the appropriate officer to look into the issues you have raised. We will send the response to Cllr Amin by 30th June 2008."

So don't be holding your breath or nuffink.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on June 12, 2008 at 16:32

I just spoke with Limehouse who sold the software to Haringey. I explained the issue raised here re the lack of visibility of other commentators or comments. I also raised the issue of the system's complexity and the lack of transparency as to the process.

The outcome:

1. Lack of visibility of other comments - intentional because Haringey want comments on the plan not on others' comments. I can see the point and from a practical data usability pov am inclined to agree. One can imagine that a debate might develop which would lack focus. The place for that debate would be in a live discussion, not via the portal. BUT they should explain this on the website AND they should make a commentator count visible so that we know we're part of an active consultation and not pissing in the wind. (Btw, technically it wd be possible for Haringey to moderate the comments and make them visible the next day - quite why it takes a month I'm not sure).

2. Complexity & Transparency - what can he say about complexity. It's up to the Council how complex they make each consultation. He was able to confirm that they don't have to offer such a painstakingly detailed set-up.

With regards to transparency he accepted my feedback about commentator count and the need for greater explanation of the process on the site.

My point in calling Limehouse by the way was twofold:

A. To shortcut council bureaucracy and go straight to the horse's mouth.

B. As a way of influencing the way the portal's set-up. Their business is at risk if the portal's not used. It's in their interest to work with the Council to get it changed - if they're any good, that is.

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