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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

News on Some Truly Radical and Imagintive thinking on the Sainsbury's Traffic Disaster

They caused it between them, Sainsbury's, the Arena and the bumbling Council. Sainsburys and the Arena are profiting. And this is the best they can come up with between the three of them?

This from Haringey Council's website:

Improving shopping congestion in Green Lanes

Wednesday 2 April 2008

A range of options to improve traffic flow around a shopping complex in Green Lanes were discussed at a meeting convened by Haringey Council on Monday 31 March.

The meeting was called to consider ways of addressing increased congestion around the junction of Williamson Road and Green Lanes, N4, by the Arena shopping development and Sainsbury's.

Representatives from the council and Wildmoor Properties - the owners of the Arena complex - and Sainsbury's agreed to look at a number of options to improve the traffic flow.

These include potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself. Other possible options include working with partners to introduce a lay-by at the southbound bus stop by the junction with Williamson Road. This would ease traffic flows as vehicles would no longer have to wait behind buses at the bus stop.

Representatives at the meeting also agreed to enter into discussions with London and Quadrant Housing Trust, which owns land at the rear of the site, over the possibility of introducing emergency access only to the site from Finsbury Park Avenue.

Cabinet Member for Environment and Conservation, Cllr Brian Haley, said:

"This was a useful meeting and I was very pleased with the positive response we received from Sainsbury's and Wildmoor Properties.

"There are no simple solutions to these problems. We need to work very closely together and with a range of other partners if we're going to tackle this congestion effectively.

"I look forward to meeting with both organisations again in May and I hope some positive progress will have been made on all sides."

No Brian. There are no simple solutions - except perhaps getting a proper job done during the planning application process . And we too hope for some postive progress, but we've learned not to hold our breaths.

Tags for Forum Posts: Sainsbury's Story, sainsbury's, tfl, traffic

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OK, I have spoken to an engineer at Highways regarding the status of Finsbury Park Avenue. There is a good reason for the confusion over whether it is private or not. The first 50m is public road ('adopted'), that's from house no.1 - no. 13B. The rest of Finsbury Park Avenue is private, as part of a housing association development.

I doubt very much therefore that this road presents a viable option to be developed as an alternative exit from Sainsbury's, except for emergency vehicles.

So it's back to re-phasing the lights and moving a bus stop. Question is, will that solve the problem? Personally I don't go anywhere near that area Fri-Sun any more.
Um........isn't that what I said Matt.
It seems to me that the problem started to be unbearable at a particular point in time, just before Xmas 4 month ago and maybe the key to this discussion is exploring what has changed at this point in time.

When Sainsbury reopened in it's enlarged version there was major changes to the car park and the way traffic is routed within it.

One very noticeable change is the new location of the W5 bus stop and route in and out of the car park. That change essentially gave the W5 it's own private road and closed off, what used to be the main exit of the car park, to all other traffic.

The result of this is that there is now only one road for both incoming and departing customers which is at a continual stand still. For incoming traffic it is mission impossible to cut through that solid line of cars to turn right into the car park. One has to stay stuck in the traffic, drive all the way a round the car park to get in.

So it is my observation that the problem is not only getting out but also getting in.

Surely the constant chaos does not achieve the aims of giving priority to public transport, which I imagine was the reason for allocating the W5 bus it's own road in and out of the car park, if the result is that it immediately gets bogged down in the main traffic once it tries to get out of the car park into green lanes...

I am not aware whether or not the filtering traffic light timing has changed too at this point of time,(Xmas) maybe others remember?

We hate going there now and try and avoid it at all cost as a result.

Maybe if Sainsbury start to experience loss of revenue as a result of customers dissatisfaction with the situation, their motivation to find a solution will grow faster!

This has been a classic pass the buck exercise so far, with Sainsbury blaming Haringey and Haringey blaming TFL...
If that is the case, perhaps they could move the W5 route to end at the Arena's pedestrian exit in Finsbury Park Avenue? This would remove buses from the chaos and while this would add a little traffic to Finsbury Park Ave and Hermitage Roads, that traffic would be in the form of our very own bus so the benefits would in my view outweigh the costs.
Yes, at the meeting I was at last night they are now looking to re-instate a separate exit from Sainsbury's car park, near to where the W5 bus stop is, in order to deal with the problem you describe.
Do you mean opening the exit for cars onto Finsbury Park Avenue?
Ah good, and I see what you mean now. I still like my W5 to the end of my road idea, but mostly because it means I have my very own big red taxi.
By way of a refresher and to enable members to see where these points have been discussed before, there have been three previous threads about this issue:

Anyone else make the mistake or driving to Sainsbury's today (Satur...

Sainsbury's Traffic

"Police Called to Punch-up in Sainsbury's Car Park"
Long may the chaos remain. I think it is an excellent reminder of the failure of planning and the overuse of the car.
OMG... you have a point. Ha ha ha.
If you live close by, which I imagine most of the users of this discussion group are, that is a valid point. However I would guess most of those arriving by car might not be so local.

Personally I find the whole shopping experience a total bore and a great waste of my time, so we tend to journey to a supermarket once every 2 weeks usually over the weekend... we spent 45 min to an hour gathering every thing we need for 2 weeks and an hour snailing out of the car park.

Walking while carrying 2 weeks shopping up the hill to Hornsey Vale is not a practical option in our case. However When we need to go to Green Lanes for any other purpose we walk!

I thought I should point out another observation while I am at it...

Although we have been caught up in the traffic madness few times it is interesting to note that as a result of:
* The enlargement of Sainsbury
*The rerouting of the W5
*Increased number of parking spaces devoted to disabled parking

There are far less parking spaces compared with before.

Despite all of the above, we never experienced a problem with finding a parking space. In my view it demonstrate that the problem does not stem from an increase numbers of shoppers who come by car. However there might be others who can tell a different story.

Now we either shop else where or get there very early Saturday morning.



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