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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Anti social behaviour in Harringay (was Young people living on the ladder in HMOs)

I will go out on a limb here and say that most of the people on this site are owner occupiers concerned with (in no particular order):
- "crime" e.g. having your cellphone stolen off of you, maybe your wallet too
- poor enforcement of planning laws by the council
- fly-tipping/messy front yards
- dogshit in the passage/on your shoes/in your house
- local "quality of life" i.e. making the high street beautiful and giving it a nice mix of shops
- the quality of education at the local schools
- our property values (go on admit it, we do think about this)

Here is a potential list of a young person's concerns (living in an HMO)
- "crime" e.g.
having a housemate steal from you/beat you up
being mugged for your cellphone which you have no insurance for and has all your important numbers in.
if you're a girl being raped would probably rate pretty highly as a concern.
- cleaning up after your dog which you paid a king's ransom for but cannot afford to feed anything other than leftovers from the kebab shop or junk dog food and hence cleaning up is pretty bad and you're hungover, you'll do it next time... oh you regret buying that dog but you do feel a bit safer...
- getting a "job"/some money
- getting a boyfriend/girlfriend
- getting high
- doing something with your life
- being shifted out of your flat (you don't think about this when you're high).

I know some of us have truly awful issues that involve young people but we should really be moaning about the council and the landlords. I feel that we (myself included) can demonise them unfairly on here. What do we think about making them off limits?

Tags for Forum Posts: antisocial, hmos, housing, youngpeople

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Replies to This Discussion

Have to say I'm fed up with people banging on about HMOs. I mean get real. We have all lived in them in our 'uth. They have to live somewhere. And we've all had plenty of parties for crying out loud!

I'd add to that list above ...'Running out of cigarettes/booze when everything is closed'. Oh and ... 'Having to think about making dinner for 4 other flatmates/house sharers'. Nightmare! :)
Matt, we're not talking about a few kids having parties at the weekend. The shared house experience is part of growing up and an important one but read Anette's blog, read the entry from David Ellis about a HMO raided this morning by the police, the entries on Rubbish, flytipping...need I go on. It's not banging on, it is a key issue
Agreed. It's awful. Shall we leave the young people out of this though?
I have read Anette's blog and do think it sounds like an HMO out of control and similarly the example David gives. We have all been through similar. Falkland Rd had a notorious address for years where activity centred around prostitution, heroin use and drug dealing. It was raided several times (police cars/vans everywhere in middle of the night). Prostitutes used people's front gardens with clients. Needles left on the street. I could go on. The only way that ended was when one of the residents/visitors at the address accidentally set the house on fire. The police (at the time) didn't have enough powers to sort that address out because it was owner occupied.

Unfortunately everyone in this country lives on top of each other so it's difficult regards noise. I know of people you get irritated by heals on wooden floors from flats above. Clauses go into some leasing agreements forbidding wooden flooring for this reason.

But as John says, lets keep the 'young people' out of it. They're not the only ones living in HMOs. Plenty of families have to as well because they can't afford better because certain people have pushed house prices up by moving into this area because they can't afford Crouch End. :)
And what is wrong with being an owner / occupier who's caring about where we live? Let's face it; When you're younger you don't care that much about things around you, you're a lot more self centered (ok, I was!).
You also haven't invested your life and your firstborn in a property. If you don't like it where you are when you're renting - you can always move on. I did.
When you have invested in a property you're generally planning on being there for a while, hence the concern for the local neighbourhood, personal safety, your kids' safety etc. What's wrong with that?
I had a great time living in shared houses and flats, and it's part of growing up. Unless you've got a trust fund or Daddy bought you your own flat. But that would probably not be in Haringey..!
Fact is, as we get older, we worrry more about stuff. We also need a tad more sleep to function properly. Which makes all night parties and cream-fests a nuisance.
Some HMOs are fine, it totally depends on who lives in them and what they're doing. I have a HMO next to me. It used to be a nightmare, full of horrid, noisy people, the place was full of cockroaches and rubbish was chucked over my fence on a regulas basis. I think the family upstairs crammed in around 18 people up there. And that was not the landlord's fault! As soon as they moved (got thrown out), the cockroaches disappeared. Go figure. The house was done up, the 2 flats sold off, and I now have 2 sets of absolutely lovely neighbours. In a HMO.
The HMO's that tends to be highlighted on this site are the problem ones. No need to really highlight the good ones, is it? :D
I put my two lists up to point out that our concerns are different and in fact I have a lot more sympathy with their concerns and I tired to avoid that coming across but obviously failed.
Barring a complete disaster, anyone born after 1980 will not own property without significant support from their parents or the government. Ever.
I notice that your "family" of 18 was probably headed by some adults and I can't imagine it was particularly happy for the kids crammed into a flat full of cockroaches either.

I'm chasing down my second legal contact in an effort to find a solicitor to help out with this. I'm on our side BUT as soon as I think we're 'demonising young people', I'm on theirs. I was young once too and it was shit.

You have hit the nail on the head with this post though. Patience and persistence have paid off, this area is slowly getting better and better. The house opposite you will go the same way as the one next to you did, it is inevitable. Don't despair.
It's not THAT shit being young! :D. It's shit being middle aged though. Grunt.
For the record: There were no kids in that flat, just adults. The kids were downstairs in another flat with far less people, being slapped around by their horrible mother. I should have called someone about that, but never did..
Also, being female I thing the getting raped and feeling safe point crosses over to the oldie list. I remember walking around feeling absolutely terrified if I had to walk though scary areas to get home. At 18 - 19 years old.
I am pretty sure young people appreciates living in a "nice" area as well, even if some of them don't seem to care. But then again some adults don't seem to care either, I think it's a people thing rather than an age thing.
As far as I know, nobody likes to slum it, young or old. Or somwhere inbetween.
I wish I could be as optimistic about the hell-hole opposite as you are. Just can't see how the owners will ever part with it. They probably make a mint on it!
We can continue this in the pub! :D
You make a very balanced argument Anette. Certainly no one wants to live in a hell hole, young or older. Living in a nice area is what most aspire to. If you need a loud haler to tell the noisy people off from the comfort of your own window .... I have one. :)

See you at pub.
do you have an air rifle too...??? I'd only use dried peas in it... :D
What you do is cut the bottom off of a rubber kitchen glove, about 1.5 - 2 inches worth. You then put this between the thumb and forefinger of your favoured hand, place a pea (frozen of course) in the middle, pull back, aim, fire. Noiseless and goes a surprising distance. Of course little bits of ice are best if you want to leave no evidence.

I read about this in a book... of course....
http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page is a good place to share any further boy scout tricks.
Half the inside of a looroll + a balloon of correct size works well too..
Did that as a kid (young person, thihi.)



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