Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
On the Strategy Consultation Again - Question to our Local Press
I went downstairs and this thing kept bugging me. This consultation. This plan for our future.
I mean, if that's it (See Haringey Council's Plan for the Future - Call for Consultation). If that's as effectively as they can seek to engage people in having a say on their future. If that's the energy the Council are prepared to put in to getting our views, it's a crying shame.
So, my question to the local press is, will you challenge the Council on this? Will you contribute to making it known? Will you take your share of responsibility? Emma?
PS: That's the Journal covered. I'll email the Advertiser and Independent.
I mean, if that's it (See Haringey Council's Plan for the Future - Call for Consultation). If that's as effectively as they can seek to engage people in having a say on their future. If that's the energy the Council are prepared to put in to getting our views, it's a crying shame.
So, my question to the local press is, will you challenge the Council on this? Will you contribute to making it known? Will you take your share of responsibility? Emma?
PS: That's the Journal covered. I'll email the Advertiser and Independent.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Delighted to see that Green N8 have picked up on this this morning and posted to their bulletin board.
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And bear in mind this from a Green N8 newsletter last year:
One of the reasons London Concrete was able to apply for their batching plant in N8, is because they used a planning agent to insert policies into Haringey UDP (Unitary Development Plan) 2,3 years before they put their first planning application in.
By the time the application was in the system, we could not make any significant contribution to the policies that allowed it in.
This should be a lesson to us all!
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Had any response from the press on this yet? I note they were quick enough to contact a member of this site over 'yobbish' behaviour in a tube station. Is that what they really care about or are they actually interested in helping households participate effectively in local democracy? Would the press care to comment ?
The free paper I receive, the aptly titled Advertiser shows little interest in anything other than headline grabbing criminal activity or 'human tragedy' stories. Useful if I want to buy a car, find a house or get a 'massage' but not if I want to find out what council departments are planning and if I should be worried. This relates to the discussion about the People magazine, just how do local people find out what is happening?...apart from this website of course!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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London Concrete did not decide to put their concrete factory in Crouch End because they are evil capitalists. They satisfy London's (and Haringey's) demands for concrete and they would probably prefer to have their factories outside of London and truck the stuff in, land is cheaper there and they don't get too much of a hard time from the locals. BUT the government said that they didn't want this, the raw materials for the concrete should be brought in as close as possible by rail and then the concrete manufactured there. The, IMHO, pathetic nimbyism of Green N8 succeeded only in getting the factory cynically repositioned to face the ladder instead of Crouch End. Had they "succeeded" in getting the factory moved somewhere else it could have ended up in Northumberland Park where life expectancy is significantly lower than Crouch End and there is no Green N17 to stop them.
Our houses have all gone up in value because there is demand and lack of supply, not because we have put new carpet in. The government have no choice but to allow more houses to be built to satisfy this demand and the best place to build them is close to public transport, even overcrowded public transport.
What we should be doing is getting involved and getting something for ourselves out of this. There is too much behind it to stop it or get it moved somewhere else. The people who have been tasked with getting this development done will appreciate our positive attitude and "helpfullness" more than any nimbysim. Might as well ask for the sky too - no car parks in the new development?
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That's an interesting perspective on LC. I've always taken the view that it seems bonkers to put a concrete factory in the middle of a residential area. But you're syaing that it was as the result of government policy. You're sure on that? (checking not doubting).
But the essential issue I'm seeking to address with this post is the poor communications / consultation process in Haringey. The LC example was one which shows how lack of residents' involvement in strategic planning can lead to results which residents don't want (nymbyistically or not).
Do you feel satisfied with the current consultation procedure in Haringey?
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They boast on their website that all their factories are at railway stations to stop them having to truck all the raw materials in and in fact allow them to bring it from a long way away. I heard at the time, when all the consultation etc was in full swing, that it was government policy to put these factories near railway stations. John Prescott had something to do with it I think. Sorry if that sounds a bit vague but I remember being very curious as to how they could put it in the middle of a community where even the council did not want it... and that was what I eventually found as the reason.
The New River Village = steel reinforced concrete and glass.
Lots of development in the city requires concrete too and we're only 5 miles away from it.
I think the poor consultation is something to do with the reaction they get when they do consult. I'm not saying you're wrong to blast them for incompetence, that's the least we should expect of them. I just think we come across as a bunch of Nimbys when we "just object" which we're prone to do. We should have some kind of "citizen's statement" of how we EXPECT the area to grow. This is just my personal belief but cars have no place in the cities of the future, buildings do.
So... Harringay statement of expectations with regard to the council anyone? I think we'd only need 30% or so of residents to sign up to it, certainly that's all you need to get into government.
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That's a process I'm trying to begin with the priorities survey. 115 responses so far which is approaching a statistically meaningful level.
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Sorry, I know you put a lot of work into this and it's one of my favourite sites. I think a little more hubris is required with regard to the survey though. It is our right to insist that policy should be referenced to our ideals as residents and I think rubbish, micro management of traffic and crime (we have very little crime compared to other areas of London) are a little more "executive" than "legislative". But I guess that's what our local body elections are for...
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You may have a fair point. Could you expand on what you mean by policy should be referenced to our ideals as residents. What does that imply? Are you suggesting that your Harringay statement of expectations with regard to the council would include issues other than those included in the survey? It would be helpful if you could give examples of what sort of things those might be.
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Yes, that's right. One sided examples:
1. Do not build any more carparks in Haringey. None. No new places to park a car. This will be hard as I bet they get money for them.
2. No more street furniture. It's ugly and we want to live in a nice place.
3. No more bylaws that you can't enforce. You must be able to show capacity for enforcing it before you can introduce it. Currently they obviously do not have capacity to enforce the 20mph speed limit on the Ladder, it was pointless introducing it - in fact it was just something they needed to do in order to make the streets one-way. No signs saying no fly-tipping unless you CAN do something about it.
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